car crash update and advice needed please!!

flyingscotno1

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Not sure where you're seeing this. I can only see 3 lanes all the way round on the aerial version of the roundabout in question.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=bromsgrove&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bromsgrove,+Hereford+and+Worcester,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.378728,-2.046155&spn=0.001236,0.001746&t=h&z=19

I appreciate this is potentially different to the time of the accident. The arrows, we know, are different.

It looks to me like a car in the middle lane (the OP's starting point) can either come off the roundabout in the right hand lane (what the OP wanted to do), or continue on the roundabout in either the left-hand or middle lanes.

skiddlydiddly wrote: »

What a confusing set of road markings.You were in the correct lane but technicly so was he.I'd of expected that left lane to have a left turn arrow painted on it and yours to have a straight on/left turn arrow.I bet there's been more than just your accident at this place.

Sorry to say but with just that picture to go on it looks as if you cut across him and he hit you near side, but the problem is more with the markings than you.

Skiddly, the left arrow at this location before the M5 slip road would be against road design guidance. I see no problem with ahead and right arrows.

I think we need to stop using the google stuff. It is mostly out of date- look at this link which shows new traffic lights and markings then click forward and it is old stuff. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=bromsgrove&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bromsgrove,+Hereford+and+Worcester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=dA35TP65BMTBhAf3lMiYCQ&oi=geocode_result&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA&ll=52.379002,-2.045833&spn=0.002554,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.37897,-2.045682&panoid=JPLJNkS_RQT-K0_Q6OdzxA&cbp=12,72.93,,0,35.29

From that streetview, if the OP was in lane 2 of the roundabout and exited onto lane 2 of the A38 the OP is perfectly correct. If the person in lane 1 continued on the roundabout they crossed the lane markings when it was unsafe and it is there fault- no technically about it.

If OP can confirm the above!

Quentin

Which road (on the photo above) is the A38 please?

JimmyTheWig

Quentin wrote: »

I'm going off the photo above ... The green sign on the right shows...

Yes, well spotted. I missed that. Was trying to look at the roads and couldn't see how many lanes there were in the photo.

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

I think we need to stop using the google stuff. It is mostly out of date- look at this link which shows new traffic lights and markings then click forward and it is old stuff. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=bromsgrove&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bromsgrove,+Hereford+and+Worcester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=dA35TP65BMTBhAf3lMiYCQ&oi=geocode_result&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA&ll=52.379002,-2.045833&spn=0.002554,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.37897,-2.045682&panoid=JPLJNkS_RQT-K0_Q6OdzxA&cbp=12,72.93,,0,35.29

Lol, yes. The number of yellow signs on the signpost is different, too.

Quentin wrote: »

Which road (on the photo above) is the A38 please?

The A38(N) is the road that you can see going off into the top left corner of the photo. The one signposted (if you can read it) to Birmingham.

bikingbarney

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

Skiddly, the left arrow at this location before the M5 slip road would be against road design guidance. I see no problem with ahead and right arrows.

I think we need to stop using the google stuff. It is mostly out of date- look at this link which shows new traffic lights and markings then click forward and it is old stuff. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=bromsgrove&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bromsgrove,+Hereford+and+Worcester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=dA35TP65BMTBhAf3lMiYCQ&oi=geocode_result&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA&ll=52.379002,-2.045833&spn=0.002554,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.37897,-2.045682&panoid=JPLJNkS_RQT-K0_Q6OdzxA&cbp=12,72.93,,0,35.29

From that streetview, if the OP was in lane 2 of the roundabout and exited onto lane 2 of the A38 the OP is perfectly correct. If the person in lane 1 continued on the roundabout they crossed the lane markings when it was unsafe and it is there fault- no technically about it.

If OP can confirm the above!

I can confirm i was in the middle lane intending to take the outside lane of the a38n , he was in the left hand lane which is markied a38n intending to carry on round the island past the a38n exit and wanted to take the exit after that.

I stuck to my lane and did not cut into his, he cut from his lane across his lane markings and into my car.

from the damage to his car which was a 8 diameter mark on the very corner of his bumper


compared to the damage on my car which started just behind my from wheel and was all the way down the car


its obvious he hit me.

here is a piccy of the previous markings..........


I think the problem is is that the island is still classed as part of the a38 and that is why the arrows point straight back onto the dual carriageway the other side.

hope this helps

JimmyTheWig

I like the crop circles in the field in the top right!

Quentin

bikingbarney wrote: »

I can confirm i was in the middle lane intending to take the outside lane of the a38n , he was in the left hand lane which is markied a38n intending to carry on round the island past the a38n exit and wanted to take the exit after that.

So this is not cut and dried - you were in the middle lane and cut across the left lane to make your exit??

If so, your case seems to be that the third party should have turned left too??

But that is not the "rule" on roundabouts, and the left lane definitely is not shown as left turn only.

bikingbarney

Quentin wrote: »

So this is not cut and dried - you were in the middle lane and cut across the left lane to make your exit??

If so, your case seems to be that the third party should have turned left too??

But that is not the "rule" on roundabouts, and the left lane definitely is not shown as left turn only.

Quentin please read what i have wrote.....

I stayed in my lane and exited into the outside lane of the a38n, in no way whatso ever did i cut into the left lane as i knew he was in it and i would never do that anyway.

flyingscotno1

Quentin wrote: »

So this is not cut and dried - you were in the middle lane and cut across the left lane to make your exit??

If so, your case seems to be that the third party should have turned left too??

But that is not the "rule" on roundabouts, and the left lane definitely is not shown as left turn only.

That isn't what he said at all. From what the OP said he's fully in the right and the other party has made the mistake of not taking the correct exit.

OP were the markings like this- http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=bromsgrove&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bromsgrove,+Hereford+and+Worcester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=dA35TP65BMTBhAf3lMiYCQ&oi=geocode_result&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA&ll=52.379002,-2.045833&spn=0.002554,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.37897,-2.045682&panoid=JPLJNkS_RQT-K0_Q6OdzxA&cbp=12,72.93,,0,35.29

Wig

Quentin wrote: »

I'm going off the photo above which was taken at the time of the incident.

There are 3 lanes up to the first set of lights, then after the lights an extra lane is added on the far right so that when the next set of lights are reached there are now 4 lanes.

The green sign on the right shows the 4 lanes and has arrows to show two left lanes straight on and two right lanes go right.

I can see the green sign with the 4 lanes, but find it hard to actually see 4 lanes on the road, and hard to see how they could have squeezed a 4th lane in without widening the roundabout which they could have done. However I conceed there must be 4 lanes there.

Taking the camera's position -3 lanes called A, B, C
'A' is the one nearest the Camera.
Now look at the green sign 4 lanes, call them 1, 2, 3, 4 from left to right. 1 & 2 are straight ahead 3 & 4 are turn right.

Because it is a spiraling layout everyone 'moves left' so to speak. The OP in lane 'B' had the choice of turning off the roundabout or continuing into either 1 or possibly 2 his choice depending on the road markings but best to choose 1 because someone in 'C' might want lane 2.

The culprit in lane 'A' has no choice but to exit the roundabout. If he wants to continue around he is going to have to upset a few people by stopping and indicating right to cross over the lane division to change lane into lane 1. As indicated by the green sign, on this roundabout a 'straight ahead arrow' means exit at the next exit and a 'right arrow' means continue round.

After the lights in lane C there is a lane guidance directing those in C to enter lane 3, creating an empty lane 4 unless someone from C decides to use 4. There is possibly another lane guidance for those in lane B directing them to 1 but we can't see it.

Because of the lane markings the culprit is undoubtedly in the wrong because our OP could have even quite rightly wanted to exit the roundabout, the dashed line shows us that this was open to him. The culprit changed lane seemingly without looking.

The markings on the road in A & B also show us that the straight ahead arrow means that lane A is for exiting the roundabout. only lane B is given a choice of exit or continue round.

JimmyTheWig

Quentin wrote: »

So this is not cut and dried - you were in the middle lane and cut across the left lane to make your exit??

If so, your case seems to be that the third party should have turned left too??

But that is not the "rule" on roundabouts, and the left lane definitely is not shown as left turn only.

Quentin, look at the OP's photo. There are no arrows pointing left.
However confusing (and/or incorrect) this may be, in this instance a straight-ahead arrow means come off the roundabout. It has to. Otherwise no-one can get to Birmingham.