car crash update and advice needed please!!

anewman

backfoot wrote: »

I find it very unusual for a driver to be exiting to the left from that middle lane. I wouldn't do it.

If the road markings say you can then I would, that's what the markings are there for after-all. I can only assume the roundabout designers intentions were that the person in the left lane stay in the left lane and the one in the middle could continue in the right lane of the dual carriageway. Presumably the driver had sufficient advance notice in the form of road signs and road markings indicating which lane they must be in for where they intend to go. I know sometimes if you aren't sure where you are and are you can end up in the wrong lane, but the thing to do is follow where you should go, not where you want to go - unless, and this is the big exception, you can do so safely.

Quentin

bikingbarney wrote: »

At the end of the day i didnt cross any road markings into someone elses lane.... he did.

You say that, though must have crossed over the left lane - the one the "culprit" was driving in!

bikingbarney

Quentin wrote: »

You say that, though must have crossed over the left lane - the one the "culprit" was driving in!

can you explain to me how i did cross into his lane as im confused??

his lane which is the left hand lane goes onto the inside lane of the a38n, his markings clearly show that.

my lane goes onto the outside lane of the a38n or carries on round the island.

there is penty of room to do the manourvere i carried out without the need to cross into his lane....

this picture should give you an idea of the road...........


hope this helps.

flyingscotno1

Quentin wrote: »

You say that, though must have crossed over the left lane - the one the "culprit" was driving in!

That is either cryptic or I have no idea what you are saying!

Two lanes before the lights, Lane 1 and Lane 2. The same 2 lanes exit the roundabout- the car in lane 2 (the OP) remains in lane and is hit by the car in lane 1 as he crossed into that lane to stay on the roundabout.

Any person who finds himself is in the furthest left lane of 3 and expects to stay on the roundabout....

OP, this is in no way a professional or legal opinion but if you stay strong and fight it, in my view, it should go your way. I believe your no way at fault for this looking at the markings.

Wig

It would be a travesty of justice if as we can see these lane markings mean they can be totally flouted and ignored to the cost of the person who is lane 2 who is following the lane directions given to him and is not crossing over any lane separation lines.

I would be onto the council highways planning authority to see if they can supply a detailed plan of the roundabout and a short summary of what a person in lane 1 & 2 at those lights is being directed and is expected to do.

There must also be a green sign like the 4 lane one we see, prior to those lights showing the 3 lane layout, you need a picture of this sign which is effectively a "get in lane" sign.

pwllbwdr

backfoot wrote: »

I am talking of the actual A38N to Rubery. It is a dual carriageway.
If as the OP has said in his evidence he wanted to get past the other driver,it was much safer for him to have done so on that long stretch of dual carriageway.He has said he was completely familiar with the route.

This is one of the difficulties for the OP. He feels he was completely entitled to leave the exit from the middle lane because the road markings encourage it. Equally,for someone who doesn't know the area, the straight ahead arrow gives an ambiguous message in this case. The other driver obviously felt so and many others have said it was better with a left turn only arrow (as it was before).

Both drivers owed a duty of care and having used this road many times, I would not have attempted the manouvre that the OP did. Did the OP signal? If he did, then the other driver may have been warned.If he didn't then,he could equally assume that the OP was heading on further round the island from that middle lane.

Negligence will be attributed on a number of factors not just road markings.

Hang on a second.

Consider an alternative scenario, where the OP and colliding vehicle start from the lights in the same lanes, but the OP instead of taking the exit he did continued round the roundabout. If the OP followed his lane markings, he would have ended up in the LH lane round the next bit of the roundabout. He would therefore still have come into conflict with the other drive who also wanted to go around the roundabout.

It is entirely possible that a collision would still have happened even if the OP had not been taking the RH lane on the A38.

The common factor in the two scenarios is that the other vehicle wished to go around the roundabout from his lane at the lights which is a turn lane only.

Quentin

pwllbwdr wrote: »

Consider an alternative scenario, where the OP and colliding vehicle start from the lights in the same lanes, but the OP instead of taking the exit he did continued round the roundabout. If the OP followed his lane markings, he would have ended up in the LH lane round the next bit of the roundabout. He would therefore still have come into conflict with the other drive who also wanted to go around the roundabout.

It is entirely possible that a collision would still have happened even if the OP had not been taking the RH lane on the A38.

The common factor in the two scenarios is that the other vehicle wished to go around the roundabout from his lane at the lights which is a turn lane only.

This where I disagree.

The left lane prior to the lights isn't a "turn lane only". (If it was it would be clearly marked to ensure drivers knew they must go left).

If both cars remained in their lanes and both drove straight ahead, then they would still be in lanes one and two after going through the lights.

From the photos of the scene, we can see that immediately after crossing through the lights an extra fourth lane is created to the right of lane 3.

The lane directions on the green sign by the lights show that then the existing lanes one and two are for traffic going straight ahead and lane three and new lane four are for turning rught at the next lights.

So the "culprit" approached the first lights intending to go straight ahead, and positioned in lane one (where the arrow points straight ahead), and carried on in his lane to be struck by the OP who crossed his lane to exit!

Its a pity this will probably be settled out of court - there have been nearly 240 posts so far discussing this over the two threads and it would be good to hear the court's decision - when is the hearing set for?

Wig

Quentin wrote: »

This where I disagree.

The left lane prior to the lights isn't a "turn lane only". (If it was it would be clearly marked to ensure drivers knew they must go left).

So if they are instructed to go round the roundabout, where are the ones who (in lane 3 or 'C') are instructed to turn right going to go? Into the bushes? :rotfl:

If both cars remained in their lanes and both drove straight ahead, then they would still be in lanes one and two after going through the lights.

In this case only that would occur (because the roundabout has been widened), what if the same markings were used on a roundabout with only 3 lanes turning into 3 lanes, (Anewman posted an image of such a roundabout in Newport earlier in the thread - Anewman? Where is that Newport sat image link? Did you delete it?) with the same spiraling pattern -as is common on roundabouts- Where would the OP go when he gets crushed between the culprit and the car to his right?

The lane directions on the green sign by the lights show that then the existing lanes one and two are for traffic going straight ahead

i.e take the the next exit off the roundabout.

and lane three and new lane four are for turning rught at the next lights.

i.e continue around the roundabout. Where else are they going to turn right except to go around the roundabout? If they are being instructed to go around the roundabout where do you think the ones who had 'straight ahead' arrows are being instructed to go?

What will you say when we get the previous green sign which is most likely there waiting to be photographed? which shows our 3 lanes:
lane 1 or 'A': straight ahead only (exit only)
lane 2 or 'B': straight ahead or round to the right (exit OR round the roundabout)
lane 3 or 'C': round to the right only (round the roundabout only)

So the "culprit" approached the first lights intending to go straight ahead, i.e. use the next exit as the lane guidance instructs him to do. and positioned in lane one (where the arrow points straight ahead), points straight ahead towards the exit and [strike]carried on in his lane[/strike] crossed over the lane guidance lines into the OPs lane to [strike]be struck by[/strike] strike the OP who [strike]crossed[/strike] followed his lane to exit!

Quentin, how you can be so blind to the facts is frankly, astonishing. In your version no-one is ever going to be able to leave this roundabout, except those who are turning right through the bushes down the embankment onto the motorway, right?

bikingbarney

Quentin wrote: »

This where I disagree.

The left lane prior to the lights isn't a "turn lane only". (If it was it would be clearly marked to ensure drivers knew they must go left).

If both cars remained in their lanes and both drove straight ahead, then they would still be in lanes one and two after going through the lights.

From the photos of the scene, we can see that immediately after crossing through the lights an extra fourth lane is created to the right of lane 3.

The lane directions on the green sign by the lights show that then the existing lanes one and two are for traffic going straight ahead and lane three and new lane four are for turning rught at the next lights.

So the "culprit" approached the first lights intending to go straight ahead, and positioned in lane one (where the arrow points straight ahead), and carried on in his lane to be struck by the OP who crossed his lane to exit!

Its a pity this will probably be settled out of court - there have been nearly 240 posts so far discussing this over the two threads and it would be good to hear the court's decision - when is the hearing set for?

Quentin.....

Please look closely at the lane markings on the picture above .

from his lane straight on is onto the a38n, not round the island further .

his lane markings even show where he is meant to go.

bikingbarney

I tell you what , I will go upto the junction in question this afternoon and take a photo of the previous green sign so you can see what it says, from memory im almost certain it is the same as the markings on the floor.

steve