car crash update and advice needed please!!

bikingbarney

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

I'm massively confused at all the markings and terms indicated and I plan and sketch these things for a living!

Google maps is probably 2008-ish. It looks as if since then spiral markings have been introduced (from the overhead I can understand why).

For me, I would not have a left arrow on the circulatory carriageway before a no-entry roundabout arm. It is tempting fate- esp when from a drivers view the exit it refers to is more straight. In the Google pictures there is an inconsistency between lane 1 and 2 in that the A38 N is left in lane 1 and ahead in lane 2 (on streetview)- both were left in the aerial).

The current markings of ahead arrow A38 in lane 1, ahead and right in lane 2 with destinations are correct and what I would do.

If a driver has continued right around the inside he would cross the dashed line of the spiral marking which guides the lanes off the roundabout, and therefore would have made an unsafe lane change?

I don't know where filter comes in as a filter is only where the lights have arrows to go through red lights.

I think that is right?

that is absolutely correct and exactly what he did!!

Quentin

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

I don't know where filter comes in as a filter is only where the lights have arrows to go through red lights.

What I was (badly by using the filter example!) trying to say was that if you could only turn left from the left lane (where the straight arrow is paintes), then instead of a straight arrow there would be a left turn arrow, and the white line between the left lane and the centre lane would have been continuously painted forcing you into a left turn.

As shown in this example (page 8 of the pdf):

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@travel/documents/digitalasset/dg_192269.pdf

Also see page 9 of the same pdf showing how the road should be marked for a compulsory left turn (a left pointing arrow with "turn left" painted on the road beneath it)

serjoe

Quentin wrote: »

To but it bluntly, you are giving out this advice in ignorance of the situation.

If the parties cannot agree on liability, then ultimately it ends up in court, where the matter is decided after hearing both sides (ie both drivers stories, not what their insurers say). The defendant and claimant are the drivers, not their insurers!

How can you say that! The stories of the both parties about the accident should of been taken by the ins.co. and signed by the drivers(pictures of the accident if any enclosed). attending in court should be done by reps form the insurance co. and they will lay their side of the story in front of the court which will deside the outcome.
My advice was to get intouch with the rep from the ins. co and tell him to get the thing sorted without him as he had given statements and pictures and what is required from them so they can pick up with the prossedings(court case if any). prove me wrong please. I am not in the whole law bussiness but i had my fair share dealings with them and from my experience that is what ive learn. ive helped sort out my friend court proccess and pass the case back to the ins.co. to get it sorted without him attending to court.

JimmyTheWig

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

In the Google pictures there is an inconsistency between lane 1 and 2 in that the A38 N is left in lane 1 and ahead in lane 2 (on streetview)- both were left in the aerial).

I believe that the two google links are different junctions. The first is the junction is question. The second is one that is "basically the same".
If you zoom out from the streetview link you get the aerial view of the junction in question. Which backs up the streetview of it.

OP, can you confirm that the markings are still like your photo at the time of the accident - i.e. they were changed between the google pictures were taken and the accident?
If so, I would check with the council (or whoever maintains that bit of road) why they were changed.

I don't think that the rules have changed, just the markings. In either case, what you did was according to how the road was designed and what the other driver did was against how the road was designed.
But personally I feel that the way they were on google was correct and the way they were at the time of the accident was wrong.
Which makes it fairly harsh to put the blame on the other driver. But someone needs to take the blame as the OP was totally in the right!

In summary - I don't know!

flyingscotno1

Oh I think I've got the wrong angle then....

The markings have defo changed- the google aerial does not match the OPs photo. The streetview, when it was taken matches the Google Aerial however at certain points you can see the junction has been re-signalised with new lights and has the new spiral markings introduced.

Quentin

After the lights, the 3 lanes we see in the photo become 4 lanes as the roundabout continues towards the next set of lights.

It does look that the 3 existing lanes carry on and an extra one is created on the far right.

The two left hand lanes continue to have straight arrows, and the two right lanes have right turn arrows (according to the green sign by the lights).

So the 2 lanes with straight arrows just continue across the junction, and a car in the OP's original position (middle lane) shouldn't drive into the left hand lane after going through the lights unless it's clear and safe to do so.

flyingscotno1

Quentin wrote: »

After the lights, the 3 lanes we see in the photo become 4 lanes as the roundabout continues towards the next set of lights.

It does look that the 3 existing lanes carry on and an extra one is created on the far right.

The two left hand lanes continue to have straight arrows, and the two right lanes have right turn arrows (according to the green sign by the lights).

So the 2 lanes with straight arrows just continue across the junction, and a car in the OP's original position (middle lane) shouldn't drive into the left hand lane after going through the lights unless it's clear and safe to do so.

Correct, but I think what happened was the the car to the left of the OP went into the side of the OP trying to continue around the roundabout where as the OP kept to lane 2 of the A38 and didn't cross lanes.

For me the OP has followed his lane and regardless of arrows the other driver has crossed the lane markings and changed lanes into the side of him.

Quentin wrote: »

What I was (badly by using the filter example!) trying to say was that if you could only turn left from the left lane (where the straight arrow is paintes), then instead of a straight arrow there would be a left turn arrow, and the white line between the left lane and the centre lane would have been continuously painted forcing you into a left turn.

As shown in this example (page 8 of the pdf):

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@travel/documents/digitalasset/dg_192269.pdf

Also see page 9 of the same pdf showing how the road should be marked for a compulsory left turn (a left pointing arrow with "turn left" painted on the road beneath it)

Nope- you'd never paint solid lines on circulating carriageway if it was the only exit. That only happens in exceptional circumstances. The example you show is a bypass not on circulating carriageway.

This is a spiral marking layout and drivers should follow the lines and show extreme care in crossing them. Indeed it mentions that in the guidance below that you need to consider safety of u-turns at such r/b as they have to cross markings.

The guidance also notes (although it contracts itself if you read it all!) that you could not use a left arrow in this circumstance before the slip road (should be one further on, but impossible as this is not a perfect layout or world).

IMV the markins are correct. Lane1 exits the roundabout into lane 1 of the A38 N, lane 2 exits into lane 2 of the A38 N and can continue further round. In this instance a car in lane 1 tried to continue around the roundabout and hit the OP. It is that cars fault for unsafe lane change.

The markings guidance is shown in link below-
http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/section2/ta7897.pdf

That is my take on it.

JimmyTheWig

Quentin wrote: »

After the lights, the 3 lanes we see in the photo become 4 lanes as the roundabout continues towards the next set of lights.

Not sure where you're seeing this. I can only see 3 lanes all the way round on the aerial version of the roundabout in question.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=bromsgrove&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bromsgrove,+Hereford+and+Worcester,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.378728,-2.046155&spn=0.001236,0.001746&t=h&z=19

I appreciate this is potentially different to the time of the accident. The arrows, we know, are different.

It looks to me like a car in the middle lane (the OP's starting point) can either come off the roundabout in the right hand lane (what the OP wanted to do), or continue on the roundabout in either the left-hand or middle lanes.

skiddlydiddly

What a confusing set of road markings.You were in the correct lane but technicly so was he.I'd of expected that left lane to have a left turn arrow painted on it and yours to have a straight on/left turn arrow.I bet there's been more than just your accident at this place.

Sorry to say but with just that picture to go on it looks as if you cut across him and he hit you near side, but the problem is more with the markings than you.

Quentin

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Not sure where you're seeing this. I can only see 3 lanes all the way round on the aerial version of the roundabout in question.

I'm going off the photo above which was taken at the time of the incident.

There are 3 lanes up to the first set of lights, then after the lights an extra lane is added on the far right so that when the next set of lights are reached there are now 4 lanes.

The green sign on the right shows the 4 lanes and has arrows to show two left lanes straight on and two right lanes go right.