Noise From Flat Above-Concerned About a Child

thequant

Hi all, thanks for the responses and it's good to have a good spectrum of them. As expected when it concerns a child its emotive and divisive. As for those who doubt that my concerns were genuine and i'm not using them as excuse to solve the noise problem, simple fact is if that was the case, i wouldnt have came here and sought a second opinion, i would have gone straight to social services or even the police. The noise is so bad, that if the police did attend, they would smash the door down.

Regarding my questioning, of the living arrangements, please can anyone tell me why i was being irrational, that grown adults are living in a room which can barely fit a double bed, yet leave a living room about 3 times the size completely unfurnished and turned over to the toddler?

There has been some plausible reasons as to why it is case, however if this is the reason behind it, one thing that has not been raised yet. Are the authorities/medical services aware of this childs condition? it's could be that the parents maybe unaware or not recieiving help for their child which they desperatly need and they have learnt there own coping mechanisms.

regarding being reasonable, am i really being unreasonable to complain about noise that is so loud even turning volume up to full blast on my TV and music system is not enough to drown it out. banging and crashing so bad that my xmas decorations are constantly shaking and falling down and in extreme cases I can see the ceiling actually buckle under the crashing!

on occasions I can hear a ball being banged about said living room,the ball is being hit with such force that there is no way it is the child. On one occasion when this was happening, i went upstairs to complian and the father appeared with a football. How the fcuk can anyone call this reasonable behaviour and responsible parenting?

thequant

ok,can I have any suggestions as to what my next steps are.

Ive tried reasoning with the parents to no avail,my options as I see them.

a) contact my LL, who also is a solictor and will probably know the law in this area. but i see there is probably little she can do as it seems to be my problem which i need to action on.

b) contact the LL of the above property,i have details of their estate agent from a problem with the last tenants (not noise related, although they were noisy, but was bearable) and inform them that furniture has been removed from the flat and alterations to the structure have taken place. when i mentioned they had removed the door to the living room, what they have done is removed the door and installed an archway.

c) contact enviromental health, its been mentioned there is little they can do, however I have a friend who works in that department for the local council and i think he might actually run it, so i could call in a favour.

d) move out and sue the residents above for the costs incurred.

e) any other options ?

Errata

If I've understood all this correctly -
Upstairs tenants moved into a furnished flat a month ago
They have rearragned or put into store the furniture
Rooms are unheated
They have made constructional alterations by removing a door and turned the doorway into an archway
Footfall or articles dropped on their loung floor causes your ceiling to buckle

In your shoes I would contact your LL as a matter of urgency before your celing falls down. If it's buckling its integrity is already compromised and is probably unsafe.

goldbyron

From your penultimate post (football being struck hard and male adult appearing at door) - then maybe you should call SS just to mention your concerns...it is better for unneccessary intervention for a couple of weeks into a families life than a lifetime of any child neglect/abuse. As for yourselves - this still won't solve your issue so I would say you have to move out. You can't sue the family for costs - just cut your losses and leave....oh and make sure you get a top floor flat. It doesn't rule out noise problems but it does make noise more bearable coming from below than above. Good luck.

evoke

My suggestion is to get even. The issue is that having offspring somehow gives you the right to ruin someone elses life by creating noise which is 'reasonable' to you but, obviously, completely unreasonable to the person whose life is being ruined.

Legally there's very little you can do. Trying to reason with Prima Donna parents who think the world revolves around them simply because they've managed to reproduce is impossible, as i've found out.

My advice is to ensure that they are woken up every night and then they will understand how their behaviour is impacting you.

And for those who say move, my property is already on the market. I'm considering taking a £20K to £30K hit because of the neighbours from hell living above me.

milliebear00001

It isn't just 'prima donna' parents though. The family I lived below didn't have a particularly unusual lifestyle - it's just that children run about, play noisily, shout, cry etc and flats are generally not that conducive to masking this noise. I would NEVER buy a flat, because you simply don't know who will be living above you. I was lucky that I was renting and could move. If you buy one, then you accept that risk.

I just don't think this one is winnable. You either find ways to 'manage' the noise from above, or you move. In my experience, all the 'legal avenues' that are apparently there to help, are blind alleys. Nobody in authority is going to do anything at all to sort out this issue, because there is nothing they can do to stop a child making a normal level of 'child-noise'. One person's perception of 'unacceptable noise' is often very different to their neighbour's (or Environmental Health's).

tbs624

OP - you perhaps do yourself a disservice by hanging on to the idea that there is child neglect/cruelty involved when you don't have all of the facts. If you really think this may be an issue then just get on and report it but I think most families who had a neighbour who first complained about their noise and then reported them to the NSPCC/Social Services ( probably needlessly) may feel that you were a neighbour with whom no compromise could be reached. If you report them and the NSPCC/Soc Services find no grounds for action what then?

if you have really tried with these neighbours, including inviting one of them down to hear what you can hear, and resolve cannot be reached then perhaps you could try contacting the local Council or the CAB to see if there is a Neighbour/Community Mediation Service available locally.

You may also find it helpful to to have a look at the Neighbours From Hell website/forum

You mention that you also had problems with the previous Ts and that you both have health issues of your own so perhaps you need to reassess where *you* want to live: the worst place is obviously a mid floor flat with the potential for noise from both below and above

evoke

The child is just a red-herring in this discussion.

Unacceptable noise is when the noise generated by your neighbours has a severe negative impact on your life. That is the only point that should be discussed. In the OP's case, his/her quality of life has been severely impacted. And that's unacceptable. You cannot live a 'normal' life in a flat. When I walk in my flat I wear soft, cushioned slippers a lot of the time and ensure that my foot-fall is not heavy, so as not to unnecessarily disturb my neghbours who live below me. I ensure that I never play my stereo loudly. I ensure that I never use my washing machine during the night or in the early hours of the morning. I ensure that when family of friends come round we avoid generating too much noise and if there's going to be a celebration of any kind I always knock on my neighbours doors to pre-warn them and let them the know day and hours that there may some noise and also for them to just knock on my door if I ever generate too much noise.

Most developments containing flats have communal gardens. Parents with kids should use those to exercise their kids and not the hallways of their flats.

Sorry, but breeding does not entitle you to make noise that is unacceptable to others.

milliebear00001

Except of course it does.

As I keep repeating, nobody in 'authority' will do a thing to stop the noise created by this child.

Harp on about what's right or wrong all you like, but the fact remains that while children are allowed to live in flats (and last time I looked, there was no law stopping them) then there will be disgruntled neighbours who don't appreciate the noise those children create.

The only practical solution to this, is for the family upstairs to move, or for the OP to wait til the child gets older and (hopefully) less noisy, or move themselves.

pmlindyloo

First of all, my deepest sympathies. Noisy neighbours (for whatever reasons) can be sheer hell.

I am enclosing a link for you:

http://www.noisyneighbours.co.uk/ You may already have seen this.

If I were in your position I would speak to my LL (particularly since he/she is a solicitor) and explain the situation and mention that you may have to move out. Now whether that is possible of course will depend on the terms of your rental contract. However, if it is a possibility I would imagine the LL would have a very difficult task to find new tenants especially if prospective tenants would be 'put off' when they viewed.

If possible ask your LL to come and visit you. Then she/he will see for themselves what the problem is. Your LL may be able to speak with your neighbours's LL and get some action taken.

It is a very sad fact that people are forced to move because of neighbour problems but in reality it is often the innocent party who have do the moving.