Icesave - please think before you apply

[Deleted User]

why just warm-blooded? what about fish and so on. They must feel panic if not pain when getting a hook embedded in the mouth.

[Deleted User]

lisyloo wrote:

I am really suprised that several people were appaulled at my comments that killing criminals was better than killing whales.

If you are appaulled at my comments then you are appaulled at your own governement.

I am really appalled by your consistent failure to spell 'appalled' correctly.

Let's widen the debate on this thread even more, and discuss falling teaching standards as well. It has as much relevance as most of the posts on this thread. Now don't get me started on the wearing of the veil...:D

DocProc

After reading all the comments and debate so far, I think you guys who are coming down on the side of 'Don't do business with an Icelandic bank because Iceland have started whaling again' lose hands down.

You might stand some chance of winning the moral high ground if it were the bank itself that was doing the whaling.

But it isn't. It's the country of Iceland that has given the permission to some of its citizens to do a limited amount of whaling.

We can pick ANY country throughout the world, including this country, and then find any old random but easily recogisable morally indefensible problem to confirm and use as a 'reasonable justification or cause' and then use it as the main reason to substantiate any positionable stance, such as not doing business with one of that country's banks.

The act of taking a false cause to 'justify a stance' or 'lever an argument' has a name. It is called 'neo-cheating'. And the better the false cause, the better the neo-cheating.

There are several main things to consider when picking an Internet savings bank. We are all very familiar with them. eg, Interest Rate being perhaps the best.

We don't pick Nationwide because it doesn't come from a whaling country.

We don't pick ICICI HiSAVE because it doesn't kill baby seals.

We don't pick Market Harborough Building Society because it is not located in Scotland and so, for example, the male staff cannot possibly wear disgusting kilts with nothing on underneath.

I'm sure you get my drift on this neo-cheating stuff?

Paul_Herring

kittie wrote:

why just warm-blooded? what about fish and so on. They must feel panic if not pain when getting a hook embedded in the mouth.

Ok, lets go for reductio ad absurdium..

Why just animals? What about the plants? There is scientific research that they too feel pain. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plants+feel+pain&btnG=Google+Search

(Reminds me of a converstion on Bash.org:
<green> We vegetarians love the environment. carnivores are sick freaks.
<Frank> How can vegetarians possibly love the environment.. you keep eating all the f*****g plants.
)

sham63

The Earth’s whale population was brought to the brink of extinction by commercial whaling. The moratorium on commercial whaling imposed in 1985 by the International Whaling Commission stopped the decline and whale numbers are now on the increase.

It is likely that if this ban had not been imposed there would not be any Blue Whales left.

The figures are pretty disturbing – by the time Blue Whale hunting was finally banned, 330,000 Blue Whales had been killed in the Antarctic, 33,000 in the rest of the Southern Hemisphere, 8,200 in the North Pacific, and 7,000 in the North Atlantic and the world population had been reduced to less than 1% of its total one hundred years before.

Is there anyone posting on this thread who thinks that the moratorium is not a good thing?

Iceland has now broken this 21-year-old international moratorium on commercial whaling.

Sapphire

Paul_Herring wrote:

Ok, lets go for reductio ad absurdium..

Why just animals? What about the plants? There is scientific research that they too feel pain. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plants+feel+pain&btnG=Google+Search

(Reminds me of a converstion on Bash.org:
<green> We vegetarians love the environment. carnivores are sick freaks.
<Frank> How can vegetarians possibly love the environment.. you keep eating all the f*****g plants.
)

We are talking specifically about whales here - which are warm-blooded animals.

Please refer to post number 100, paragraph 1 on this thread for a response to your attempt to divert the issue. :cool:

molly_mandy_2

Sham63 has listed it perfectly above.

The largest Icelandic Bank can put pressure on the Icelandic Government.

People have a choice, if they so wish, to put pressure on the Bank.

DocProc

The thing you'll also notice with this neo-cheating stuff, is that it just goes on and on and on.

Neo-cheats (the people who use these 'false causes' to leverage their arguments) just keep emphasising the credibility of the false cause. They beef it up and strengthen it. Then, because you can't find cracks in the false cause, you think, and they think too, that they've won the argument.

Strip all the 'false cause' stuff out! Back to basic realities, please! We are talking Internet Savings here. Not whaling morality. Or Chinese morality. Or Japanese morality. Or any other morality.

Neither is anyone swearing or using bad language and no one is yet cursing each other and so you can keep debating all these false causes and their weaknesses and strengths until the cows come home.

BUT NO ONE CAN EVER WIN THE ARGUMENT, AS TO EITHER 'FOR' OR 'AGAINST' USING ICESAVE AS AN INTERNET SAVINGS BANK, WITH NON-REALITY REASONS.

Real(ity) reasons to use Icesave:

Interest Rate: Highly attractive
Web site experience: Fast, simple, clear, easily understandable and refreshing.
Internet banking methodology: Fast and not confusing.
Customer Service: English speaking and also technically able and familiar.
Security procedures: Excellent.

False reasons to use Icesave

Do any of the staff kill whales? Definitely not!

False reasons not to use Icesave

Icesave is owned by an Icelandic bank and Iceland are approving the killing of whales.

[Deleted User]

DocProc wrote:

snip

Hear, hear. :T

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Counter55

DocProc wrote:

BUT NO ONE CAN EVER WIN THE ARGUMENT, AS TO EITHER 'FOR' OR 'AGAINST' USING ICESAVE AS AN INTERNET SAVINGS BANK, WITH NON-REALITY REASONS.

...

False reasons not to use Icesave

Icesave is owned by an Icelandic bank and Iceland are approving the killing of whales.

Economic boycotts, rightly or wrongly, have been used in the past and are a legal and non-violent protest. It may be reasonable to argue that in some cases it won’t work or harms others, but it IS a “valid reason” if you think it will work and the person or country doing it is willing to accept the cost (in this case, possibly some loss in interest). An example of publicity and threat of boycotts ‘working’ are big western firms trying not to use child labour in the far east (although you could argue that the children are so poor they are better off earning money).

Do you see harm in people reminding others that icesave partly sells itself on being from Iceland with “Magical, ethereal landscapes. Bubbling geysers and molten magma. Majestic glaciers, spectacular waterfalls. Pure, fresh and untarnished spaces.”
They don’t mention the revived whaling industry do they? When a company partly sells itself on being from a certain type of country then it seems reasonable to point out the full picture.

If you don’t think boycotts work – fine, say that (or just ignore this thread).
If you don’t think whaling is wrong (or not worth the cost of a boycott) – fine say that (or again, ignore thread)
If you don’t think people should be able to decide if they want to boycott something with their own money then say that. But isn’t the whole site about people deciding what to do for themselves - with the help of others? And if people decide to try something that doesn't work, so be it - but the attempt is valid for them.