Ford diesels dont like sainsburys

masterlumps

jdnw27370 wrote: »

Warning !!!! anyone who has purchased a new ford
diesel (any make) DO NOT put sainsburys city diesel in the tank because it has the same affect as if you had put petrol in ,,,,,sister in law has a s-max 60 plate (diesel) and topped up with city diesel and made it home but later it would not start so called out the rac and he was baffled until he phoned around and got the heads up about the problem So if this has happened to you and you have been charged by ford get your money back because theyre not informing you that you have to steer clear of sainsburys

that is in fact the most rediculous claim i have ever read

but if you have any hard facts............................

Rolandtheroadie

I've looked in the past for biodiesel levels in pump diesel but have not been able to find out much apart from a sticker on a pump once.
Does Sainsburys city diesel have a larger amount than everyone else?
The reason I tried to find out is when i had a couple of TDCI Fords in the household, I'd read that as the mix went up, the risk of damage increased.
If supermarkets in general have a higher ratio bio/diesel, that would also go part way to explain loss of power and reduction in MPG.

Lum

whatmichaelsays wrote: »

It's a myth that supermarket fuel is hugely different to any other fuel.

The reality is that, with the way that fuel distribution works, the fuel across the petrol stations in your area, regardless of what name is on the forecourt roof, will all come from the same refinery.

While this is true, your conclusion in wrong.

The raw product, yes, will come from the same refinery, so for example if you live in Ellesmere Port, your BP or Sainsburys fuel will have come from Shell's refinery at Stanlow.

However what comes out of the pump isn't just raw diesel (or petrol) each manufacturer has their own blend of additives, such as stabilisers, detergents and so on.

Some companies heavily promote their additives in their standard fuels, eg Shell FuelSave (let's leave V-Power and BP Ultimate out of this), others just do the bare minumum to meet the relevent standard (a standard that came out a long time before Euro V). This is what the supermarkets are alleged to do. Some are also alleged to add a small percentage of biodiesel.

Now one of the ways in which crappy fuel can kill your engine over time is a build up of a wax-like substance on the end of your fuel injectors, over many years this can cause them to narrow and eventually reduces the amount of fuel going into the engine. On a petrol car this will cause it to run lean which will eventually lead to detonation and premature engine failure.

I should probably take a break here to explain how a fuel injector works. Think of it as being like a very tiny hosepipe, however they don't have a tap, they have a solenoid with two states, open or closed. If you only want them to flow at 50% capacity then you pulse the solenoid and it opens and closes repeatedly many times per second (this is known as Pulse Width Modulation). If you then narrow up the pipe by clogging the end up with crap this process produces less diesel because you are getting 50% of the reduced capacity. The engine computer is unaware that this is happening.

Diesels are, thankfully, less prone to detonation but less diesel going in = lower performance. You will have to press the accelerator further just to get the same amount of diesel in through the injector and top end acceleration will be more limited as your injector capacity is reduced.

Many of you will not notice this as it is a gradual process and if you're not into sporty driving you probably wont care until the injector clogs up completely. Some people who aren't too bothered about performance but do want to maintain their injectors choose to run supermarket fuel and then run one tank of a premium fuel, say, once a month. (or once a quarter, depends how often you fill up really)

Now, back to Ford, on the bottom of the last page someone posted about how the new Euro V engines have changed the injector design to one that has smaller nozzles, and more of them. A smaller nozzle will mean that when they start to clog, they will clog faster and the effect will be more pronounced. This mirrors my own experience (January 2010 registered Mondeo 2.0 Econetic). Having run on Shell for the last 3 or 4 tanks, I filled up with Tesco and had no problems until part way into the second tank of Tesco, at which point I noticed that it seemed a little sluggish to pick up momentum from idle and I had to adjust my clutch technique to compensate.

I think what I am going to do is run a few more tanks of Shell after this, and from then on only buy Tesco every alternate tank, and even then only when Tesco is cheaper, which is to say when I come across a 5p off voucher since there is a Shell off M4 J26, a very small diversion on my way home from work, that is consistently cheaper than all the other Shells in the area and usually the same price as the supermarkets.

Also, I suspect that these Euro V engines aren't sold in countries that have really crappy diesel, such as the USA (excluding California) or third world countries. They will still get the older less efficient designs.

Edit: Just thought of a great analogy. Think of it like limescale in a shower head. If you put hard water through it it will clog up the head, but if you could somehow add a small amount of vinegar to the shower water (or Calgon, lol) then this could be prevented. Not sure I'd want to shower in Calgon, but car engines don't mind the wax dissolving additives.

Edit2: Couple of silly typos

smjxm09

Great post,which supports my use of Shell in my Euro V Mondeo

Lum

Have you noticed that a number of recent diesel engines are also telling you not to use biodiesel, wheras older ones will quite happily run on used chip fat? As a rule of thumb, I'd suggest that if your car manual says no biodiesel then you should consider using higher quality fuels.

Gloomendoom

Lum wrote: »

Have you noticed that a number of recent diesel engines are also telling you not to use biodiesel, wheras older ones will quite happily run on used chip fat? As a rule of thumb, I'd suggest that if your car manual says no biodiesel then you should consider using higher quality fuels.

I think that is down to the high levels of methanol found in some biodiesel, particularly the home produced stuff. It rots the rubber seals used in the fuel system.

Lum

That is true, but it does point to it being a more modern engine that's going to be fussy about what fuel it gets.

Not like the old landies, or the russian military diesels.

This is why I only said "consider"

If you have a car that's happy to run on biodiesel and/or chip fat then I'm sure Tesco Value Diesel will be just fine.

jdnw27370

masterlumps wrote: »

that is in fact the most rediculous claim i have ever read

but if you have any hard facts............................

Sorry if I had hard facts I would have sold them to the press :) just trying to be helpful but I will know better next time

flyingscotno1

Kilty wrote: »

I can guarantee you that in Scotland Tesco and Sainsburys fuel comes from INEOS in Grangemouth as does BP, Esso, Shell, etc etc etc.

Some will, but they also come from Clydebank Fuel Terminal. Of course the petrol and diesel used could be refined anywhere, but was transferred up by boat from Eastham/Stanlow I think for Clydebank.

I have to say, I don't mind supermarket fuel. I use Shell for points and as it is just as cheap anyway, whether their additives are better...

neilmcl

jdnw27370 wrote: »

Sorry if I had hard facts I would have sold them to the press :) just trying to be helpful but I will know better next time

Hardly helpful if your info is a load of b*&^&%^%cks and you've got no facts to back up your claim.