Ford diesels dont like sainsburys

elp99jcm

jst008 wrote: »

I've just read with interest all 9 pages of this thread, I'll explain my situation.

I drive a 61 plate 2011 mondeo TDCi Econetic which means it has the super efficient Euro 5 engine - 1600cc yes the one with 8 little jets instead of 6 larger ones.

As background I use approx a tank of diesel a week or 600 miles the car is 18 months old & has done 35000 miles.

In December (4 months ago) I had Engine Mallfunction light on dash & car goes in to Limp Home Mode. You can stop turn engine off & then on again to reset but problem happens again 100m up the road especially if you stop on a motorway & need to accelerate off the hard shoulder. Car to main dealer - new fuel filter.

This week (March) exactly the same problem, car to different main dealer - new fuel filter.

This time the guy at the garage contacted ford who allegedley said (brief version) do not mix supermarket fuel with big brand fuel as the additives they put in do not like each other & react to cause a "gel" which will block the fuel filter. Only common in 1600 diesel (new ones) as these have a finer filter (????). The additives are for winter use & are added between Sept & March.

Both of my instances happened during sudden cold snaps, currently the last three fill ups have been Sainsburys City Diesel.

I have posted this on HJ & Ford Mondeo Owners Club & after reading lots & lots of answers it would appear to be:

• sudden temperature drops (-4 / -5 degC)
• Euro 5 engines with the finer nozzles
• Ultra low Sulphur diesel that maybe has added bio-diesel or other additives.

I've asked ford & Shell etc to comment but have not tried Sainsburys to ask what their biodiesel proportion is?

Any use?

Also, the comment about supermarket diesel and premium diesel mixing and gelling is utter rubbish.

Another thing to add, since the first time this happened I have only put Shell or BP through my car, I can assure you this 100%. So I did not use supermarket fuel for 12 months and the problem occured throughout the winter.

In all seriousness, can we join forces to tackle this. I bet if we compare stories it will eliminate many variables being thrown at us.

elp99jcm

Having read about all the other people having problems I have submitted my story to watchdog and I suggest you do the same if you are suffering this problem. I will also go to trading standards, this is a ridiculous situation.

photome

elp99jcm wrote: »

Also, the comment about supermarket diesel and premium diesel mixing and gelling is utter rubbish.

Another thing to add, since the first time this happened I have only put Shell or BP through my car, I can assure you this 100%. So I did not use supermarket fuel for 12 months and the problem occured throughout the winter.

In all seriousness, can we join forces to tackle this. I bet if we compare stories it will eliminate many variables being thrown at us.

Its a good idea but when i suggested merging all threads it git rubbished, with many people saying there isnt a problem.

My thoughts were that if anyone has problems and googled it they may find one thread on here and post.

forgotmyname

If its waxing, Why isnt the wax melting when it warms up?

elp99jcm

I an not an expert in diesel, although done a fair bit of reading(and planning some experiments at home) but my understanding is that wax sits suspended in the fuel normally and starts to come out of suspension forming filaments first, then forming larger elements. Warming the diesel does not melt these back into the fuel. It is not a simple two way function.It is generally states a waxed filter will not return when heated.

elp99jcm

I have referred the issue to Trading Standards with the hope I can point then to the various forums etc. to show how many people this is affecting. I also have my fuel samples although I suspect they will not touch them.

I'll post any feedback, I would recommend you doing the same if you have been affected.

elp99jcm

Not heard back from Trading Standards yet. The cold weather has set in and I am nursing the car around, hoping it will survive this next cold spell - it has to get warmer soon surely!

Anyway, I have been doing some research and wondered what you all though:

Diesel is sold in the UK to standards BS EN 950 (14214 for bio diesel). Two fuel types are specified, summer and winter grade. The stats are:

Winter: CFPP -15 deg C , CP -5 deg C
Summer: CFPP -5 deg C, CP 3 deg C

CP is the Cloud Point and is the point at which wax starts to come out of suspension (hence goes cloudy).

CFPP is the Cold Filter Plugging Point. This is interesting, it is the temperature at which a 45 micron filter clogs enough to prevent fuel being drawn through at a fast enough rate.

For finer filters the actual plugging point is somewhere between the Cloud Point and the CFPP. A typical 10 micron filter is likely to be somewhere around -10 degrees on Winter fuel. A 2 micron filter is likely to be nearer the CP, so this could be near -5 degrees.

I would therefore argue that a car designed to require a 2 micron filter is not design to work well with UK fuels and UK typical winter temperatures.

Any thoughts?

elp99jcm

To all those affected.

The outcome of my dialogue woth Ford is a letter stating that the solution to the problem is to wait for a new fuel to come out in the winter. This is the standard response from them.

this end I am trying to encourage people to contact Watchdog to relate their experience with this matter. I have also had this conversation on the TalkFord website where someone else has already done this.

Search for watchdog bbc and fill in a quick online form. It takes a few minutes to do and they may take up the case.

Joe_Horner

I' ve been reading this with interest over the past few months, and I must say that I tend to agree that this sounds like a car maker's problem, NOT a fuel company one.

Fuel companies, whether supermarket or "brand name", have to meet the legal requirements for the quality and properties of their fuels. In the UK these requirements are pretty high compared to a lot of places, and the penalties for failing to meet them (at least on a regular basis) are serious. Supermarket fuels do meet at least those minimum standards, whatever the horror stories you hear.

Car makers should be well aware of the design properties of the available fuels and, if they design a car that's not capable of coping with the minimum standard expected, it's for them to warn at the point of sale of the car what additional standard is required for their particular engines. Only, doing that would harm their sales - owners from new probably wouldn't care too much but resale values would plummet as it became known that "XYZ model can only be filled with ABC fuel".

Also, because all fuel is only certified to the minimum BS quality standards (Esso, BP etc don't have to exceed that standard, and don't guarantee that they will, even if they usually do), a car that requires a higher standard for reliability can never be completely "safely" refuelled with any brand.