Whipped them all soundly, and sent them to bed. A nation of child haters.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

Neverdespairgirl I don't agree with hitting children either.
I had three daughters and never were they smacked.I never ever had any problems controlling them either.
I'm a firm believer in mutual respect with children,You only get from children what you put in and children are a full time job and a totally life absorbing one.
My method was to reason with them and spend time talking to them and telling them why certain behaviour was not appropriate.
If they misbehaved I showed my disapproval and disappointment in them and from a very early age they realised if they were good it paid off.
I'll admit that I was with them 24 hours a day and that helped.
Obviously with under two's who can't be reasoned with you just take the child out of the situation if they're being a problem,why should other people suffer. As a parent you make the sacrifices not other people.
Parents like the one's you describe are the reason we have such badly behaved kids nowadays,children only learn by example.

lostinrates

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

We have a place in Southern Italy so go there often and we've found the children there to be much better behaved and respectful from a very young age than they are here.
That like you say is influenced by a strong family culture we just don't have here.

While this is true I have a friend who works in A and E in Italy who reports the family culture can actually be very bad for child welfare. The reporting of child abuse is pretty low, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen as much. The A and E are discouraged from grassing and in fact it is only on the fourth visit to A and E that things get reported. (i.e. parents get three chances.) Now, considering many places have more than one A & E...e.g. in Milan there are seven. So often or perhaps even usually, a child being reported to ''social services'' equivalent can have been injured 21 times badly enough to seek hospital treatment before intervention is made. It is expected than parents' own families will issue them guidelines about what is acceptable in terms of parenting.

When it works well I don't think it can be bettered as a way to bring up children...within a family, and a society...everyone chips in, but in cases like my friend describes it can go terribly, terribly wrong, with things being kept secret, and confined to ''the family''.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

lostinrates wrote: »

While this is true I have a friend who works in A and E in Italy who reports the family culture can actually be very bad for child welfare. The reporting of child abuse is pretty low, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen as much. The A and E are discouraged from grassing and in fact it is only on the fourth visit to A and E that things get reported. (i.e. parents get three chances.) Now, considering many places have more than one A & E...e.g. in Milan there are seven. So often or perhaps even usually, a child being reported to ''social services'' equivalent can have been injured 21 times badly enough to seek hospital treatment before intervention is made. It is expected than parents' own families will issue them guidelines about what is acceptable in terms of parenting.

When it works well I don't think it can be bettered as a way to bring up children...within a family, and a society...everyone chips in, but in cases like my friend describes it can go terribly, terribly wrong, with things being kept secret, and confined to ''the family''.

There's bound to be families there just as there is here who abuse their children.
It's very sad wherever it happens,no where's perfect.

lostinrates

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

There's bound to be families there just as there is here who abuse their children.
It's very sad wherever it happens,no where's perfect.

Of course, the difference is when reporting these abusive families is frowned upon because of the superior belief in family, not that abuse is more or less likely, just more or less detectable and preventable.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

lostinrates wrote: »

Of course, the difference is when reporting these abusive families is frowned upon because of the superior belief in family, not that abuse is more or less likely, just more or less detectable and preventable.

That sadly is very true.

dizziblonde

I've said it before - I don't hate kids - I hate inconsiderate parents. The world does not revolve around your children - yet any attempts to suggest that there are some environments that are NOT best suited to kids, that sometimes other people have the right to NOT have their meals out ruined by children running around a restaurant, that they might NOT want the back of their chair repeatedly kicked - immediately gets one painted as a rabid evil child hater.

I don't actually want to hear about colleague's kids and see their scan photos - I've got very strong personal reasons for this (it's incredibly painful for me because of things that have happened in my life), but if I do try to avoid them - again, I'm some evil rabid child hater (I spend a heck of a lot of time suddenly having to pop to the loo quickly to avoid certain situations). I've even seen someone sit and complain an inconsiderate relative had a miscarriage and how horrid it is that it spoilt all the fun of their own pregnancy... stuff like that - no consideration for others... that's the stuff that makes me hate the behaviour of a large section of parents.

Your child is no doubt the centre of your world - to the rest of us, they're just another child - sorry to break that to you. If they're making a noise and misbehaving - they're a screaming misbehaving child - brutal truth, and screaming misbehaving children... ARE annoying. Being irritated by a kid kicking you in the back is a human reaction - stop demonising the fact people get annoyed by it. You'd all get annoyed if adults were lairy, loud, swearing in front of your kids - because the behaviour of the adults affects those around them... it's exactly the same with the behaviour of your children toward us.

As for the idiotic comment about having kids to ensure you've got someone to look after you in your old age. Go tell that one to a bereaved parent - quick your kid's dead, better pop out another one so you don't end up in a home. How utterly offensive and thoughtless - and typical to assume the childless are that way through choice and the usual value-judgements and assumed personality defects. I know someone whose son died - one of her major haunting thoughts is what will happen to her when she's old. Mind you - the other day someone tried to suggest all the childless should quickly pop a few out in case we run short of firemen... so nothing surprises anymore.

ninky_2

dizziblonde wrote: »

As for the idiotic comment about having kids to ensure you've got someone to look after you in your old age. Go tell that one to a bereaved parent - quick your kid's dead, better pop out another one so you don't end up in a home. How utterly offensive and thoughtless - and typical to assume the childless are that way through choice and the usual value-judgements and assumed personality defects..

i always think that's a really selfish self-centred reason to have children - often uttered by people who when push came to shove would not look after their own parents in old age - and certainly would not look after their inlaws in old age. in this day and age it is quite likely that adult children will not live near enough to look after you on a regular basis and will have other pressing concerns (such as their own children).

Jonbvn

Another mumsnet thread I see.

This whole board seems has become somewhat O/T.