Does there come a point when access should stop?

kazmc

grey_lady wrote: »

If the School Home Support unit have advised its in your daughters best interests to stop contact, she's having panic attacks and calling childline - then I think yes, stop contact for now before any more emotional trauma is inflicted on your daughter.

Yes I know thats what sounds sensible but my daughter adores him and 'when' he does see her he is good to her and I really do think that whatever he is like he is her dad??
This is my dilemma really, is it doing more harm her seeing him or not??

Last weekend was taking her to Madame Tussards to see the new Cheryl Cole waxwork (my daughter is obsessed ) but he text me an hour before to say he couldnt make it as him and his girlfriend had food poisoning. I text back to say I would get M to call him so he could explain as I was sick of being the bearer of bad news. M was really cross with me for not telling her myself! You just cant win sometimes?!!

mum2one

I don't know you, but after reading your post, considering everything that has happened, you are one in a million.
I spolit up with dds dad when I was 7 mths gone, he was violent, abusive, and had forget to mention that his wife hadn't left him she was "away" - at her majestys pleasure.
He kicked off when dd was 3 mths re access - which I put my foot down and said no, I had a good solicitor representing me. Dd has not seen her dad, the reason from his family was that he wife was upset about the baby (she couldn't have children) he had told her a pack of lies, but they continued with the marriage.
Fast forward dd is now 8, he has crawled out of the woodwork, wanting access, and threatening court action, when I spoke to the solicitor he said if it did go to court, then the court would appoint an independant person for dd and that her views would be taken into consideration, as well as mine and all the history. He has now left his wife, has a new "love of his life" and there expecting a baby, so yes that child would be half brother or sister to dd, but they now live 2 hrs away, I have to wait and see if the I want to see my daugter is hot air because of the new baby to be.......
I'm guessing that would be the same for yourself if it went to court, ur dd bing a year older.

The thing is your piggy in the middle, what ever you do or say be wrong, through no fault of your own, it sounds like all the upset has had a detrimental effect on dd, and her health needs to come first, on that point I would say stop the access as he's letting her down. But as you have said she when she sees him it is good.
I know its hard but you need to try to find middle ground, is there any way that arrangements can be made direct with you, and if he dioesn't turn up dd doesn't get ready etc and let down, I know shes going theou the mill but shes sounds very well adjusted, you've done a brilliant job in a very difficult circumstance.

Is there a way that you speak to the counceller and see if you can have a session with her, so that whilst you say - look things have been difficult that is why I need to make these decisions - ie contact to you eventually, but whilst he's going off on one, theres no contact - thinking that the counciller can sort of be the bat and ball, sorry if that sounds daft.

I think its great that you have got a good relationship with his ex and the children as they have been a part of dds life. Maybe concentrate on that and then she may not realise that shes been let down as often.

I really think all contact should stop, you need to nip dds problems in the bud before she gets much older and secondary school, if contact does happen its done through u and dd gets told at the last minute.

I would also suggest getting a solicitor on board, - more as a back up, - you can get a free half hr with most firms, and they can tell you the options, etc whether you'd be entitled to legal help, and where you stand legally.

If you need a chat pm me x

****kara****

Sorry but if that was my daughter I would stop contact as from your OP it is affecting her badly and more damage could be done by letting it continue this way. This is jmo of course

Your poor daughter I will never understand parents who up and leave and treat there children this way

RadoJo

I just wanted to add something - whilst any attempt to avoid saying negative things about your DD's Dad is admirable, I think you can take it too far. If she instigates the discussion and says negative things about her Dad, she might be looking for reassurance from you that the poor behaviour is on his part and in no way reflects upon her - it may be hard to gauge, but you sound as though you have a very close relationship with your daughter, so I'm sure you will find a way to support/reassure her without actually influencing her, and it will be easier for her to understand her Dad's behaviour if you can openly talk about how the way he treats her feels.

My Mum also made a huge effort not to say anything bad about my Dad, and I admire her for it especially as it must have been REALLY difficult at times. But, sometimes I needed confirmation that it was his behaviour which was bad to reassure me that I hadn't 'asked for it' or contributed to the way he treated me. It's not easy, but it can be done and in your daughter's position it might help both of you to be honest - I don't mean a full on character assassination, but something along the lines of 'That wasn't a nice way for your Dad to treat you, and I'm sorry that he upset you. He doesn't mean to, but sometimes it's hard to him to understand that it makes you sad when he doesn't show up.' Now you might think that he knows full well how his behaviour impacts on your daughter, but she's probably just a little bit too young to understand the complexities of adult relationships and would appreciate knowing that you understand how she feels.

kazmc

RadoJo wrote: »

I just wanted to add something - whilst any attempt to avoid saying negative things about your DD's Dad is admirable, I think you can take it too far. If she instigates the discussion and says negative things about her Dad, she might be looking for reassurance from you that the poor behaviour is on his part and in no way reflects upon her - it may be hard to gauge, but you sound as though you have a very close relationship with your daughter, so I'm sure you will find a way to support/reassure her without actually influencing her, and it will be easier for her to understand her Dad's behaviour if you can openly talk about how the way he treats her feels.

My Mum also made a huge effort not to say anything bad about my Dad, and I admire her for it especially as it must have been REALLY difficult at times. But, sometimes I needed confirmation that it was his behaviour which was bad to reassure me that I hadn't 'asked for it' or contributed to the way he treated me. It's not easy, but it can be done and in your daughter's position it might help both of you to be honest - I don't mean a full on character assassination, but something along the lines of 'That wasn't a nice way for your Dad to treat you, and I'm sorry that he upset you. He doesn't mean to, but sometimes it's hard to him to understand that it makes you sad when he doesn't show up.' Now you might think that he knows full well how his behaviour impacts on your daughter, but she's probably just a little bit too young to understand the complexities of adult relationships and would appreciate knowing that you understand how she feels.

I agree with you 100% and that is something I already do. I say that of course daddy loves you but he is having a bit of a silly moment and everything will be ok. I also tell her that daddys behaviour is not acceptable behaviour because the last thing I want is for her to grow up thinking its ok to be like this.
You are right, we have an incredibly close relationship and even though I dont bad mouth him I make sure she knows its not her fault and that daddy is wrong.
God its all so hard isnt it.

I've just emailed the School Home Support worker to start the ball rolling with that again. He did at one point call her dad in for a meeting to try and get through to him the harm he was doing but he dad came away and later told me the guy was a waste of space and didnt know what he was talking about!!

kazmc

mum2one wrote: »

I don't know you, but after reading your post, considering everything that has happened, you are one in a million.
I spolit up with dds dad when I was 7 mths gone, he was violent, abusive, and had forget to mention that his wife hadn't left him she was "away" - at her majestys pleasure.
He kicked off when dd was 3 mths re access - which I put my foot down and said no, I had a good solicitor representing me. Dd has not seen her dad, the reason from his family was that he wife was upset about the baby (she couldn't have children) he had told her a pack of lies, but they continued with the marriage.
Fast forward dd is now 8, he has crawled out of the woodwork, wanting access, and threatening court action, when I spoke to the solicitor he said if it did go to court, then the court would appoint an independant person for dd and that her views would be taken into consideration, as well as mine and all the history. He has now left his wife, has a new "love of his life" and there expecting a baby, so yes that child would be half brother or sister to dd, but they now live 2 hrs away, I have to wait and see if the I want to see my daugter is hot air because of the new baby to be.......
I'm guessing that would be the same for yourself if it went to court, ur dd bing a year older.

The thing is your piggy in the middle, what ever you do or say be wrong, through no fault of your own, it sounds like all the upset has had a detrimental effect on dd, and her health needs to come first, on that point I would say stop the access as he's letting her down. But as you have said she when she sees him it is good.
I know its hard but you need to try to find middle ground, is there any way that arrangements can be made direct with you, and if he dioesn't turn up dd doesn't get ready etc and let down, I know shes going theou the mill but shes sounds very well adjusted, you've done a brilliant job in a very difficult circumstance.

Is there a way that you speak to the counceller and see if you can have a session with her, so that whilst you say - look things have been difficult that is why I need to make these decisions - ie contact to you eventually, but whilst he's going off on one, theres no contact - thinking that the counciller can sort of be the bat and ball, sorry if that sounds daft.

I think its great that you have got a good relationship with his ex and the children as they have been a part of dds life. Maybe concentrate on that and then she may not realise that shes been let down as often.

I really think all contact should stop, you need to nip dds problems in the bud before she gets much older and secondary school, if contact does happen its done through u and dd gets told at the last minute.

I would also suggest getting a solicitor on board, - more as a back up, - you can get a free half hr with most firms, and they can tell you the options, etc whether you'd be entitled to legal help, and where you stand legally.

If you need a chat pm me x

Thankyou so much for that post, its reminds me I am doing the right things to some degree!! I get so bogged down with should I?, shouldnt I? that I just go round in circles

kazmc

lastnight M was sobbing and saying she knows deep down she really loves him but she wants to be really angry with him as well cause he keeps being mean to her. She said she doesnt want him to know she is angry with him because he might stop loving her and then never turn up
I have tried my best to reassure her that that would never happen and that maybe it would help daddy to see how much it hurts her if she tells him but she is so scared of him walking away altogether...

It breaks my heart...

Errata

kazmc wrote: »

Thankyou so much for that post, its reminds me I am doing the right things to some degree!! I get so bogged down with should I?, shouldnt I? that I just go round in circles

It does sound as if you would be helped to 'hear' what you're thinking by talking it through with someone who is neutral and outside the situation. Given your daughter's difficulties - panic attacks etc - you may be eligible for a few counselling session at your GP practice.
Reading her dad's view of the Home Support Worker and the fact that he's in his third live-in relationship in 9 years, it may be that he sees himself as always in the right and everyone else is always in the wrong. Leopards don't change their spots very often.
In your situation it's fine for a mum to be fair and even-handed, but very unfair not to be realistic about continuous damage being caused to a small girl who can't stick up for herself.

RAS

kazmc wrote: »

lastnight M was sobbing and saying she knows deep down she really loves him but she wants to be really angry with him as well cause he keeps being mean to her. She said she doesnt want him to know she is angry with him because he might stop loving her and then never turn up
I have tried my best to reassure her that that would never happen and that maybe it would help daddy to see how much it hurts her if she tells him but she is so scared of him walking away altogether...

It breaks my heart...

Hi

You needs some support when you are dealing with such distress.

And M needs help to tell daddy how much it hurts, preferably with you not there to "muddy" the waters in terms of emotional entanglements.

Is you ex aware that M is having counselling to cope with the feelings she has about this relationship?

Is there any way her counsellor could empower her to tell him, in a neutral place? I know he might not turn up but.....

Charlie1978

What about M writing daddy a letter? I'm not entirely sure if it would have any effect on how he is with her but it might very well may do. Either way it would help for her to get it all out.

You have my sympathy though. It's hard work trying to do the right thing for your children when natural instincts mean you want to protect them. But sometimes you can protect them too much I think.