Student Protest/Riots

dizzie

I think the peacefully protesting students have a justifiable reason for their protest. With the level of debt being incurred, graduates will find that they become, in essence, long-term higher rate taxpayers once their salaries rise to £21K. They will have deductions from wages on all income over and above this as follows:

Basic rate income tax = 20%, NI = 12% (from April next year), student loan repayment = 9% .....a total of 41% deductions

From April next year, people like me will be paying 42% on earnings only when they DOUBLE this £21K limit (i.e. 40% tax and 2% NI contribution). I benefited from a degree - I was one of the lucky ones....and with fewer numbers going in my day, there was not the same level of competition for graduate jobs. I also benefited from being able to get a mortgage before the housing market boomed.

I and my family benefit from the services of other graduates - e.g. those in the teaching profession or the NHS. Why would it NOT be reasonable to split the cost of university tuition between the students and the HIGHER rate taxpayer?(i.e. by increasing the higher rate of tax by 1-2p in recognition that many of us HR taxpayers either previously benefited from a FREE degree or if not, have certainly benefited from a society and a previous economy that was supported by people from all walks of life....including graduates!)

I think it is dreadful that new graduates will see long-term wage deductions of 41% on earnings over £21k, whilst I don't see a similar level of taxation on my earnings until I am getting at least DOUBLE that!!!

Students - you have my sympathy

Taiko

It's 9% of income over £21000. So a student on £25k would repay £360 a year. Equating it to 41% deductions is just wrong.

On the subject of bad courses, I found this on my database: http://s497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/TaiStyle/?action=view&current=kingston.jpg

rolleypolleypud

Louisdf wrote: »

Learn to use a spell checker before you put your 2 cents in. It's sympathy not simpathy. Have you even tried to study Ancient Greek? I can assure you, you need to be very intelligent to study it and have a good command of the English language (something you clearly don't have.) The only places you can study it are at Oxford, Cambridge, Durham etc. which you can only dream about getting your foot in the door. I do agree that degrees like Circus Studies, Lady Gaga and golf need to be justified in the current economic climate, but I can assure you that most UK students are NOT doing these courses. The only reason you hear about them in the media is because they are extremely rare. A few pointless courses should not justify making everyone else who has spent years trying to get into University to do courses in long-standing and well-respected subjects suffer unnecessarily. You are an embarrassment to the British education system with your narrow and unsupported views.

:rotfl::rotfl:Hay if you want to go to university to study ancient greek I coudn't care less. As long as you pay the fees involved I really couldn't give a toss!

Oh and weather I could get my foot in the door to any of those universitys erm how the fook do you know? How do you know I don't have a degree already? As for pointing out the spelling of sympathy thanks very much its good to see you have learnt something during your time as a student.:T

rolleypolleypud

Louisdf wrote: »

A quick 30 second UCAS course search for ancient greek:
http://search.ucas.com/cgi-bin/hsrun/search/search/StateId/QTrT-wnA4y2PDSIgurT8PIktCusKC-30xk/HAHTpage/search.HsSearch.submitForm?txtSubject=greek&cmbQual=&cmbAttend=&cmbInst=&button1.x=0&button1.y=0

Bristol, Cambridge, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Glasgow, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Oxford, Royal Holloway, Sheffield, St. Andrews, UCL
Think before you post, you ignorant twit. Do those Universities look like the places dishing out the 'useless degrees' you complain about? If Ancient Greek is so useless, then surely you will have no problems studying it yourself?

It's a shame you don't enrol on a course about how to debate subjects without having to resort to personal insults. Your not really putting students in a good light are you. Maybe if you want to change peoples views and see your point about how you believe these fees are unfair you should try doing so by putting a rounded and factual argument in place about how and why these fees will have such a negative inpact. I think you might find people would be more inclinded to listen to you that way rather than my insulting them. But then I guess thats exactually what showed during the students protest assulting police officers, insulting anyone who dosen't agree with them and vandalising property. Pathetic childish tantrums just because students can't get there own way.

vikingaero

Degrees aren't the magic be all and end all of life.

Some people think that because they have gone to University and got a piece of paper that makes them intelligent. I have to sit on interview panels and listen to a lot of dross who think they are self important because they have a degree. A degree nowadays is as useless as GCSE's and A-Levels where you have forget-what-you-have-learnt modules. This self-aggrandisement by degree holders who have simply gone to Uni gets them nowhere. If you want to stand out go to Uni, get a degree, and do something worthwhile whilst you're there, or I simply won't consider you are worthy.

Back on topic - the state pays for your basic education from 4/5 to 16/18. Anything after that should be paid for by you. It's an investment. If you think you have the ability then return on your fees should be worth it.

Lokolo

dizzie wrote: »

I think the peacefully protesting students have a justifiable reason for their protest. With the level of debt being incurred, graduates will find that they become, in essence, long-term higher rate taxpayers once their salaries rise to £21K. They will have deductions from wages on all income over and above this as follows:

Basic rate income tax = 20%, NI = 12% (from April next year), student loan repayment = 9% .....a total of 41% deductions

From April next year, people like me will be paying 42% on earnings only when they DOUBLE this £21K limit (i.e. 40% tax and 2% NI contribution). I benefited from a degree - I was one of the lucky ones....and with fewer numbers going in my day, there was not the same level of competition for graduate jobs. I also benefited from being able to get a mortgage before the housing market boomed.

I and my family benefit from the services of other graduates - e.g. those in the teaching profession or the NHS. Why would it NOT be reasonable to split the cost of university tuition between the students and the HIGHER rate taxpayer?(i.e. by increasing the higher rate of tax by 1-2p in recognition that many of us HR taxpayers either previously benefited from a FREE degree or if not, have certainly benefited from a society and a previous economy that was supported by people from all walks of life....including graduates!)

I think it is dreadful that new graduates will see long-term wage deductions of 41% on earnings over £21k, whilst I don't see a similar level of taxation on my earnings until I am getting at least DOUBLE that!!!

Students - you have my sympathy

This is wrong I think.

NI and Income Tax are taken from Gross Income.
Student Loan is taken from Net Income. And it is only 9% above the threshold.

For example:

On £25,000 gross:

- Income Tax Paid - £5000
- NI Paid - £3000
- Student Loan - $360 (sorry my keyboard has gone USA)

Total Paid in "Tax" - £8360

= 33.44%

Lokolo

Taiko wrote: »

It's 9% of income over £21000. So a student on £25k would repay £360 a year. Equating it to 41% deductions is just wrong.

On the subject of bad courses, I found this on my database: http://s497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/TaiStyle/?action=view&current=kingston.jpg

I missed your post before mine

Jeff_Bridges_hair

People forget that Labour were planning to increase the fees too before they got thrown out of power
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7094316.ece

While the students may have a point about getting into a lot of debt - Uni is not some sort of right and there are many people who have not gone to uni who have made something of themselves. I believe its all about how determined you are to progress in life.

uni isnt for everyone and rioting really has lost a fair few people concern.

bratz81

I have some sympathy for students graduating with big debts. I was lucky enough to not have to pay fees when I was at university in 2000-2004, coming from a one parent family, however I took out the student loan and am paying that back now, which I am more than happy to do.

I come from a very poor family, and am glad I got to go to university. But I got there through good grades, and having to pay fees wouldn't put me off. I would work and save, or take a loan/grant to pay them and pay it back after graduating, which is what students have the choice of doing now I believe.

Too many people go to university now, and degrees are becoming meaningless, and in no way guarantee you a better job. Too many people also do degrees which have no benefit or meaning career wise. For example, a friend of mine studied American History for his 4 year degree. He's now working in Tesco, and cannot get a job using his degree, unless he decides to become a teacher and does a PGCE. Which he doesn't want to do as he's sick studying. So, a 4 year degree, a waste of time and the money spent on fees. He could have got a job in Tesco straight from school.

When I decided to go to university, I wanted to do a degree in something career related/useful. I studied Computer Science, and have a career in IT now. But what I've found, and many others, is that a degree may get you in a job when you graduate, but after that, most employers want experience and so now my degree isn't really looked at. Some might call that a waste.

My opinion at the moment is that, no one wants debt, whether student debt or credit card debt. We'd all rather not have to pay big fees. But, if the government can't afford to pay uni fees then they can't afford it. I also think uni is an investment in your future and you should contribute to paying it, whether that is all fees or part fees.

popadom

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Don't you just love the way that students think that they have an automatic right to put their fingers in your pocket?

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Hmm. Now let's see.

Tutition fees unpopular. Government unpopular.

Left wing extremist groups will attend demonstration and cause trouble. Police have infiltrated these groups to the hilt and know that there will be trouble.

Riot takes place but police mysteriously do little or nothing. Riot heavily publicised, plenty of pictures of screaming longhairs smashing property.

Students now look very bad, lose public sympathy. Government popular again.

Success!

lol Both points make sense!