Dismissed from job - future employment prospects?

geek84

Many Thanks blue town barry for your reply.

So, what do you suggest that I put on an application form where it asks for reasons for leaving previous employment?

Thank You.

TEDDYRUKSPIN

geek84 wrote: »

Hi Folks

About 8 months ago, I got dismissed from my office job. The jist of the story is that our company got taken over by new owners in October/November 2009, and as a result, more pressure was put on my manager (who was the one who dismissed me), to improve performance etc. In turn, he put more pressure on me. Anyway, although I had been with the company for about 2 years, he put me on a 3 month probation review, during which I was to improve my work performance. We had weekly meetings (and 'friendly' arguments), about the way in which my performance was being measured. The only 'fault' and I very much regret it now, is that I did not keep records of these meetings.

At the end of the 3 months he dismissed me. His reason was that I did not improve my performance significantly in the 3 month period. His comments were that I can do the job but I am lazy and couldn't be bothered to improve my performance. I had a good mind to appeal against the decision but obviously for this type of thing you need witnesses etc, and work colleagues were not prepared to support me in fear of loosing their own jobs. After being dismissed, I then decided to do an accountancy course (to improve my job prospects for the future). Now that I am coming to the end of my accountancy course, I am thinking of applying for jobs.

My question is - Would I need to give the details of my previous employer (who sacked me), as a reference? if so, obviously they would state that I was dismissed and on the grounds of being 'lazy', and obviously that would affect my chances of gaining employment in the future.

If I do not give the details of this previous employment, then I somehow have to give details of how I spent the last 2 years.

Finally, is there such a thing as a 'verbal' reference. I am told that employers cannot give you a 'bad' reference, but there is nothing stopping them from picking up the phone and telling a future employer exactly what they think of the candidate.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I kind of love these questions as I have been in your situation before and seeks legal advice.

As for the above?

(1) You do not need to use your last company as a reference letter at all. A company will usually only send out a letter to this company with your permission. If so, will only need proof of you working there.

(2) As for a reference letter. A company can send out a bad reference letter but............. (i.e to all, I got legal advice). The company can not write a bad reference which deems to you in losing the job or not to get this job.
How do you know? Every candidate or employee has the write to request this documentation from your potential employer via HR. i.e. data protection act.

If it has any wordings that you believe that has giving you an handicap, hence, result of losing the job - you can sue the company. I actually got this advice from a legal representative.

What is likely to happen is that the company - if you use them for a reference - will decline to carry out the reference letter.

(3) Do not delete anything from your work history.

(4) As for honesty? You only have to state redundancy. You were not sacked. You were made redundant. To be sacked is usually an offence which you don't something so severe eg. stolen something from the company.

I hope this helps.

Phone up ACASS for general legal advice. IF in doubt, even see a legal representative - employment solicitor.

liney

TEDDYRUKSPIN wrote: »

(4) As for honesty? You only have to state redundancy. You were not sacked. You were made redundant. To be sacked is usually an offence which you don't something so severe eg. stolen something from the company.

.

He was dismissed, not made redundant. He was performance managed out.

People can be dismissed on the grounds of capability or performance as long as the correct proceedures are followed. What you are referring to is Gross Misconduct, and is not the only reason for dismissal.

Uncertain

TEDDYRUKSPIN wrote: »

(2) As for a reference letter. A company can send out a bad reference letter but............. (i.e to all, I got legal advice). The company can not write a bad reference which deems to you in losing the job or not to get this job.
How do you know? Every candidate or employee has the write to request this documentation from your potential employer via HR. i.e. data protection act.

If it has any wordings that you believe that has giving you an handicap, hence, result of losing the job - you can sue the company. I actually got this advice from a legal representative.

Well, I hope you didn't pay much for this advice!

Either you were advised badly or you have misunderstood the advice you were given.

To have any chance of successfully suing a company for providing a "bad" reference you would have to show that it was either factually wrong or was written in with the intention of deliberately misleading.

Providing it does not fail on either of the above you have no comeback regardless of the consequences.

For example, "Mr Smith was frequently late and, despite several warnings and considerable re-training, consistently failed to produce work of the required standard. He was the subject of more complaints from customers than any other person we have employed. At the time he resigned we were investigating two written allegations regarding his conduct from female members of staff. I regret to say I would not consider re-employing him in our company."

Providing all this can be substantiated then Mr Smith's firm are quite entitled to put it in a reference and he will have no comeback!

geek84

Hi Folks

Many thanks for the latest replies from Teddy Ruk Spin, Liney, and Uncertain.

Picking up on sime of the points made by Teddy Ruk Spin -


1. If I don't quote this employer as a reference to a future employer, would they get suspicious? Regarding references, my future employer may require an 'indepth' reference from the previous employer i.e. apart from start & finish dates, they may also want to know my work performance etc. What do you advice I do in that case?

2. I presume a future employer may take me on before references are received? If the past employer does give me a bad reference, would you advice that I exercise my right to see the reference before possiblt being dismissed from this present employer, on the grounds of this bad reference that they may receive? How, can I prove that this bad reference is not all true?

4. I was actually dismissed from my previous job, so I don't think I can really write redundancy as a reason for leaving on an application form. What are you thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any further advice.

Uncertain

geek84 wrote: »

Hi Folks

Many thanks for the latest replies from Teddy Ruk Spin, Liney, and Uncertain.

Picking up on sime of the points made by Teddy Ruk Spin -


1. If I don't quote this employer as a reference to a future employer, would they get suspicious? Regarding references, my future employer may require an 'indepth' reference from the previous employer i.e. apart from start & finish dates, they may also want to know my work performance etc. What do you advice I do in that case?

2. I presume a future employer may take me on before references are received? If the past employer does give me a bad reference, would you advice that I exercise my right to see the reference before possiblt being dismissed from this present employer, on the grounds of this bad reference that they may receive? How, can I prove that this bad reference is not all true?

4. I was actually dismissed from my previous job, so I don't think I can really write redundancy as a reason for leaving on an application form. What are you thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any further advice.

1. Many employers won't, as a matter of policy, give an "in depth" reference. Providing they make that clear or it is the norm in your industry then there is no problem. Where problems come is if a prospective employer takes that to mean "we haven't anything good to say so we won't say anything"!

2. Yes, if you are turned down after references are taken then I would take steps to see it. As I said above you would need clear proof that they had said something untrue for it to be worth taking action. How you prove it depends on what exactly is said.

4. It is not normally wise to lie. However not all forms specifically ask that question. If all else fails then say something vague like "personal reasons" "family commitments" "career break" "study"......

vwelsh13

I was unfairly dismissed (assaulted, injured, long term sick) and received settlement. I made the mistake of putting line manager as referee..a "boss" gave me a crappy reference, it was true in so much as I had been long term sick but did not give reason behind it. Needless to say I lost a full time perm post coz of it : (

Gemstar30

Could I point out that that for two types of employment they really do go to town on checking up on the last employer and expect to give two independent referrees.
Civil Service
and Professional firms of Chartered Accountants.

Don't ask why they just do. They are both still stuck in the 'Stone Age'!!

liney

Your position will be "subject to satisfactory references", so if you start and they then receive a reference they aren't happy with then you can be let go. This is very likely to happen if they find you have lied, unlikely to happen if it's not "glowing", but you seem to be working out ok on the job.

Have you actually contacted the old HR yet and asked them what kind of reference they supply? I think you are working yourself up when you probably don't need to worry.

vwelsh13

liney wrote: »

Your position will be "subject to satisfactory references", so if you start and they then receive a reference they aren't happy with then you can be let go. This is very likely to happen if they find you have lied, unlikely to happen if it's not "glowing", but you seem to be working out ok on the job. QUOTE]


I think it depends on work place, the head and teacher (and kiddies) were happy with my work...some of the sch govs decided that from the reference I was likely to be "unreliable" - as the reference said and withdrew the job!!