Working for your benefits

Coeus

I speak from experience of someone who has (i) in there past claimed JSA and (ii) is now if full time employment. I state this to represent a minimal bias.

Though it has not harmed my objectivity, claiming JSA was an embarrassment purely because I have a strong work ethic. I doubt that, in the vast majority of cases, those claiming JSA cannot be found employment. By this I do not mean employment where net employment income exceeds net benefit income - those that use this as an excuse are selfish and not productive members of society.

Three weeks it took to find full time employment (young individual well experienced in current job market) so I would offer the following compromise to JSA claimants: 1 month (or whatever period the government deems 'reasonable') exemption from community service to find employment. I doubt those truly willing to take employment will take longer than this 'grace period'. From that period on community service is enforced for this nominal £1 an hour with a cut in JSA to provide motivation for those who do not want to work.

I expect an argument of particular individuals circumstances producing discrimination against those who have perceived disadvantages in the job market. Any societal system will disadvantage certain groups over others for the benefit of the majority within that society. These extreme minority of individuals are unfortunate however the needs of the many.

I will also argue against individuals who have mentioned in previous posts such perceived disadvantages as poor education, lack of experience, criminal record etc. By law every child must receive an education. A self-motivated strong work ethic will drive experience attainment. I have no sympathy for the latter. The first two points (and arguably the third) are a largely matter of parenting - however as an adult (to claim JSA) you must take all responsibility for your employment inadequacies (and your subsequent steps to remedy them). Discrimination against such a minority will encourage generations after us to shy away from laziness and crime, serving society in the long term.

vaporate

Coeus wrote: »

I speak from experience of someone who has (i) in there past claimed JSA and (ii) is now if full time employment. I state this to represent a minimal bias.

Though it has not harmed my objectivity, claiming JSA was an embarrassment purely because I have a strong work ethic. I doubt that, in the vast majority of cases, those claiming JSA cannot be found employment. By this I do not mean employment where net employment income exceeds net benefit income - those that use this as an excuse are selfish and not productive members of society.

Three weeks it took to find full time employment (young individual well experienced in current job market) so I would offer the following compromise to JSA claimants: 1 month (or whatever period the government deems 'reasonable') exemption from community service to find employment. I doubt those truly willing to take employment will take longer than this 'grace period'. From that period on community service is enforced for this nominal £1 an hour with a cut in JSA to provide motivation for those who do not want to work.

I expect an argument of particular individuals circumstances producing discrimination against those who have perceived disadvantages in the job market. Any societal system will disadvantage certain groups over others for the benefit of the majority within that society. These extreme minority of individuals are unfortunate however the needs of the many.

I will also argue against individuals who have mentioned in previous posts such perceived disadvantages as poor education, lack of experience, criminal record etc. By law every child must receive an education. A self-motivated strong work ethic will drive experience attainment. I have no sympathy for the latter. The first two points (and arguably the third) are a largely matter of parenting - however as an adult (to claim JSA) you must take all responsibility for your employment inadequacies (and your subsequent steps to remedy them). Discrimination against such a minority will encourage generations after us to shy away from laziness and crime, serving society in the long term.

Too many holes in your argument.

Only 1 month to find employment? In a crisis just because YOU got lucky?

LMAO.

I could rip your argument apart but I can't be bothered.

Person_one

vaporate wrote: »

Too many holes in your argument.

Only 1 month to find employment? In a crisis just because YOU got lucky?

LMAO.

I could rip your argument apart but I can't be bothered.

I suspect if Coeus had taken 7 weeks to find a job everybody else would be allowed 8

vaporate

Person_one wrote: »

I suspect if Coeus had taken 7 weeks to find a job everybody else would be allowed 8

lol True true.

Coeus

vaporate wrote: »

Too many holes in your argument.

Only 1 month to find employment? In a crisis just because YOU got lucky?

LMAO.

I could rip your argument apart but I can't be bothered.

I noted 1 month or whatever period the government deemed reasonable. I worked hard to find this employment - I doubt it were a matter of luck. If however it where, hence my disclaimer about the government deemed reasonable period.

In future please read carefully, especially if you advocate an ability to 'rip' my argument apart. Your post does not reflect well on such an ability.

AimeesMum_2

Person_one wrote: »

The expression 'thin end of the wedge' leaps to mind.

Sorry I might be thick but I have no idea what this means Lol

vaporate

Coeus wrote: »

I noted 1 month or whatever period the government deemed reasonable. I worked hard to find this employment - I doubt it were a matter of luck. If however it where, hence my disclaimer about the government deemed reasonable period.

In future please read carefully, especially if you advocate an ability to 'rip' my argument apart. Your post does not reflect well on such an ability.

'were'.

1 month is not reasonable.

Even the job centre do not 'push you' until after 6 months.

In a financial crisis, being given 1 month is pretty much laughable.

Moreover, so what if you worked hard? Everybody does, specially those with families to support. Even those who get the job, whether or not they are right for the job.

Coeus

vaporate wrote: »

1 month is not reasonable.

Even the job centre do not 'push you' until after 6 months.

In a finacial crisis, being given 1 month is pretty much laughable.

You missed the point of the previous posts. Please read them thoroughly and objectively. I'm sure someone with your promoted significant analytical ability can appreciate the need for thoroughness and objectivity in one's arguments. However I will explain the concept further for you:

I noted 1 month or whatever period the government deemed reasonable. 1 month is from personal experience however I realised in my original post this may not be in the majority, hence my note on a government deemed reasonable period.

If the government decided 3 months were more appropriate I would accept the decision made from superior knowledge and experience. As much as I wish I do not decide government policy. It is the concept that is important for you to understand.

vaporate

Coeus wrote: »

You missed the point of the previous posts. Please read them thoroughly and objectively. I'm sure someone with your promoted significant analytical ability can appreciate the need for thoroughness and objectivity in one's arguments. However I will explain the concept further for you:

I noted 1 month or whatever period the government deemed reasonable. 1 month is from personal experience however I realised in my original post this may not be in the majority, hence my note on a government deemed reasonable period.

If the government decided 3 months were more appropriate I would accept the decision made from superior knowledge and experience. As much as I wish I do not decide government policy. It is the concept that is important for you to understand.

I believe 6 months is where the job centre start to push you.

Nonetheless, a jobseeker can't do more than apply and look hard.

No period can be set as every situation is different.

Answer me this, why doesn't the job centre skip stage 1 and 2 and just chuck everyone on stage 3?

Are they unable to deal with a huge number at once? Genuine question.

Coeus

vaporate wrote: »

I believe 6 months is where the job centre start to push you.

Nonetheless, a jobseeker can't do more than apply and look hard.

No period can be set as every situation is different.

I must be out of touch - I would have never have imagined someone would need 6 months to find a job! I suspect those spending this long would either (i) not want to find a job or (ii) not be willing to settle for a lower standing of living. However this is only a suspicion - I do not have any basis of evidence nor do I assert this claim to be true.

You have sparked a new line of thought for me. As an analytical man/woman what do you (or any other's willing) deduce from the following argument relating to the subject matter of the post.

Assumptions:
- there are not enough jobs to match short-term demands for JSA claimants (or other employment seekers)
- the level of benefits provided by the current system must be reduced to meet cost savings requirement
- JSA claimants wish to continue to search for job opportunities

Argument:
Given the above assumptions the proposed government policy would effectively utilise the JSA claimant 'workforce' for societal benefit until either (i) short-term demand in the employment market improves to the extent of warranting a change in policy or (ii) said JSA claimants successfully exit the system into employment.

P.S. I will check tomorrow if you wish to take your time - I'm tired