Right This Is My Story

AllNancy

Jowo wrote: »

So you keep saying but is your SIL legally the landlord? Are you obliged by the terms of the court or the ownership of the property to pay it directly to him? You've made it clear that your daughter was broke and spent the rental money on living expenses.

A tenant can give their rent money to anyone they like and prove they've passed it on via rent statements but if the actual legal landlord demonstrates that he hasn't received it, then the rent is still owed!

Stop being vague and evasive.

The S8 route for eviction is serious. If the SIL is the legal landlord, and he can prove that the rent has not been received (because you chose to pay it to someone else who was not his authorised agent), and you then get evicted, the local council could turn down your homelessness application on the grounds that you made yourself intentionally homeless because your actions led to the landlord serving you notice for rent arrears.

I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO PAY THE RENT THIS WAY. I WAS ASKED TO DO SO. I ALSO DID NOT KNOW THAT SHE WASN'T PAYING HIM THE RENT.

HOW DARE YOU STATE THAT I AM BEING VAGUE AND EVASIVE. IN MY EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL STATE I AM LUCKY THAT I CAN STRING TWO SENTENCES TOGETHER. MORE THAN ONCE HAVE I CONSIDERED ENDING IN ALL AS MY STRESS LEVELS HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE ROOF AND I CAN'T SLEEP. THIS KIND OF ATTACK BY SOMEONE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING ME AND WHY I CAME HERE IS UNACCEPTABLE AND NOT NECESSARY.


Nancy

Jowo_2

Fine, put it down to the understandable stress, but do note you have repeatedly disputed that he is owed rent, saying that you've paid it and can prove it, that no rent is due to him and that he's thick to think that it is. Now it seems he is actually owed rent because the money you paid your daughter should have gone to him.

Hopefully other posters can provide info on how to dispute the grounds of the eviction or prevent the sale, perhaps through the ownership or Letter of Authority angle, now that you appreciate the seriousness of owing substantial rent to a landlord and that your daughter's non-occupation of the property is irrelevant to a judge's decision.

I apologise if I came across as harsh but this is a very complex scenario and the accuracy of the information is essential to the members of this forum if they are to suggest solutions. That's why we are drilling you for specific facts which doesn't mean we don't appreciate the hassle you are going through, but we really need some specific answers otherwise the advice you receive back will be wrong.

Brock_and_Roll

The emotions on this thread are confusing matters. IF (and I am still confused here) the SIL is the owner/landlord/mortgage holder in his sole name, then whatever the rights and wrongs involved the fact that you have paid the rent to your daughter is totally irrelevant. Not only was she not acting as his agent, but you also know that she was not passing it on to the SIL but was instead using it for living expenses.

If you were a private tennant back in 1998, what is to stop you moving out and becomming a private tennant again in 2010? Surely this would wipe the slate clean and get rid of the sleepless nights?

AllNancy

RacyRed wrote: »

Nancy, you need to find out from your daughter if your ex SIL was due any of the rent money you paid to her. EDIT - I see you have answered that one above.

As you do not have a rentbook or a formal contract, I'd think you also urgently need her to write you a "to whom it may concern" letter stating clearly that you have paid all of the rent due up to the date of the letter.

But I'd think the only way to stop the forced sale of the property is to find £20,000 + outstanding rent and pay it to him fast.

If the sale goes ahead I assume he gets £20,000 and your daughter gets the rest?

Is it possible for your daughter to get the £20,000 by arranging an equity release on the property?

Thankyou,
I doubt if there is £20,000 in the property so there certainly won't be any extra. We have no access to that kind of money. My daughter and son in law are struggling to clear UK debts as are thousands. They didn't go bankrupt but they were close.

Before the business went under the only income coming in was her salary as the partners in the company including SL couldn't pay themselves only the work force. They fought for so long with big companies owing them thousands but not paying and finally because their marriage was at breaking point gave in to the inevitable.

She went through Hell as her ex tried to stop her taking the boys to Australia, this caring guy who saw them 40 days of the year, refused to see them unless she took them halfway to his home,beat them when they were young, demanded she kept track of the number of toilet rolls used in the house, she was running a company at the time, constantly told her she was a bad wife and mother and is now trying to stop the boys payments. The boys love her to bits.

I am sorry you got all this but I'm very upset.


Nancy

AllNancy

Jowo wrote: »

Fine, put it down to the understandable stress, but do note you have repeatedly disputed that he is owed rent, saying that you've paid it and can prove it, that no rent is due to him and that he's thick to think that it is. Now it seems he is actually owed rent because the money you paid your daughter should have gone to him.
I said he was thick...period. I also said I did not owe him rent. I paid my daughter, who paid him. This arrangement has been going on for 6 years
Hopefully other posters can provide info on how to dispute the grounds of the eviction or prevent the sale, perhaps through the ownership or Letter of Authority angle, now that you appreciate the seriousness of owing substantial rent to a landlord and that your daughter's non-occupation of the property is irrelevant to a judge's decision. ?

I apologise if I came across as harsh but this is a very complex scenario and the accuracy of the information is essential to the members of this forum if they are to suggest solutions. That's why we are drilling you for specific facts which doesn't mean we don't appreciate the hassle you are going through, but we really need some specific answers otherwise the advice you receive back will be wrong.

I have tried to give specific answers and when I couldn't said so. Why on earth would I choose to be evasive when I am looking for answers? That's why I explained it again this morning to give clarity to a complex situation.


Nancy

G_M

AllNancy wrote: »

I have tried to give specific answers and when I couldn't said so. Why on earth would I choose to be evasive when I am looking for answers? That's why I explained it again this morning to give clarity to a complex situation.

Nancy

Evasive is the wrong word. But you are not being clear or answering questions.

I've twice posted trying to clarify who the owner/landlord of the property is.
YOU SAY YOUR DAUGHTER IS ON THE LAND REGISTER.
SO WHY ARE YOU DUE TO PAY RENT TO SOMEONE ELSE? (sil).

Either SIL is the owner, in which case you should be paying him, or daughter is.

WHICH IS IT?

Brock_and_Roll

Nancy,

I think Jowo is right here in his belief that the only realistic way to stop the sale of the property is to find the £20k + arrears. Whatever the moral rights and wrongs here (which are neither relevant nor should you need to disclose here in order to get help) the plain fact appears to be that a) the SIL was awarded £20k by the court, and b) he is owed rent since your daughter stopped passing it on.

So unless there is access to the money (which seems unlikely given your posts and the fact you are a retired ex-BR and money for your daughter is very tight), surely for the sake of your own sanity and health it might be wise to explore moving out and renting somewhere else?

Jowo_2

Brock_and_Roll wrote: »

Nancy,

I think Jowo is right here in his belief that the only realistic way to stop the sale of the property is to find the £20k + arrears.

Just to clarify your observation, it was actually RacyRed that proposed that particular solution.

If SIL is the legal landlord and sole owner, i.e. the S8 and S21 are validly served, then the potential way to defeat the S8 is to pay down the arrears under 2 months worth before the court case, if the rent period is monthly.

However, the S21 is known as a 'no fault' notice and no reason or justification needs to be given - if served correctly, the judge will automatically award possession back to the landlord.

The OP should speak to Shelter or CAB to understand the eviction process and their timelines.

AllNancy

Brock_and_Roll wrote: »

Nancy,

I think Jowo is right here in his belief that the only realistic way to stop the sale of the property is to find the £20k + arrears. Whatever the moral rights and wrongs here (which are neither relevant nor should you need to disclose here in order to get help) the plain fact appears to be that a) the SIL was awarded £20k by the court, and b) he is owed rent since your daughter stopped passing it on.

So unless there is access to the money (which seems unlikely given your posts and the fact you are a retired ex-BR and money for your daughter is very tight), surely for the sake of your own sanity and health it might be wise to explore moving out and renting somewhere else?

Yes you could well be right. I have just been on the Land Registry and according to that she is NOT ON IT so I don't know what's going on. Possibly the Court Order date being September 30th it was changed. I do not know. I've just sent her an e-mail.

I have re read the CCJ again and this is the info.

And upon the applicant (daughter) undertaking to the Court and agreeing to discharge promptly as they fall due all payments under the mortgage with **** secured upon ******* etc etc.

Nancy

AllNancy

G_M wrote: »

Evasive is the wrong word. But you are not being clear or answering questions.

I've twice posted trying to clarify who the owner/landlord of the property is.
YOU SAY YOUR DAUGHTER IS ON THE LAND REGISTER.
SO WHY ARE YOU DUE TO PAY RENT TO SOMEONE ELSE? (sil).

Either SIL is the owner, in which case you should be paying him, or daughter is.

WHICH IS IT?

Ex...SL has the mortgage and I was told that daughter was on the Land Registry. I can only tell you what I know.


Nancy