Right This Is My Story

AllNancy

I moved into my cottage in 1998 renting from a private landlord. In 2004 my daughter and son in law decided to buy the cottage from him as security (ironic) for me and an investment for my grandsons. The property was put in his name for tax purposes with the proviso that it would be transferred at a later date.

Three months later he walked out abandoning the three of them.

Later he went to court and was awarded £20.000 as a divorce settlement even though the house etc was bought with her high earnings, where's the justice? The court stated that she was responsible for the mortgage up until September 30th this year when the money had to be paid to him or the cottage would have to be sold. She is not on the mortgage but on the land registry.

There was no problem with the £20K until the economic downturn. Their company went bust. I meanwhile was sending her the rent and have bank statements to prove it.

They were very short of money and were using the rent to buy food. My son inlaw meanwhile gets a job in Australia and she then has to go to court to fight her ex over taking the boys. He's a control freak. He stood up and lied in court but she won....but more money.

I received a Section 8 for arrears eviction notice over two weeks ago and a Section 21 notice ending November 30th. I sent him a message on Facebook offering to up the rent to gradually clear the arrears which I don't owe and he went into orbit but even if I cleared them I think he still wants me out, he wants the money from the house.

My daughter can't afford at present to pay the arrears as they start a new life in Australia and he can't get at her which is making him even more aggressive towards me.

I wrote to Landlord Action saying I don't owe the money and can prove it and there is a letter being delivered tomorrow, wasn't in today, with her and my name on so it has to be the arrears. What happens next?

Have tried all avenues of help. I am 71 and the council say I am not vulnerable and I also I don't receive benefits so I don't even qualify for B & B which I wouldn't go into anyway as I have a small dog and I am not parting with him under any circumstances.

If it wasn't for him I think I would have ended it long before now. The worry, the sleepless nights are just wearing me down.

Sorry to be so long winded.


Nancy

Jowo_2

Nancy,

Call Shelter to understand your rights and options, including the local councils obligations towards you which may differ from what they've told you.

Call the Samaritans to receive an impartial and sympathetic listener - they will help give you emotional support during this crisis.

How many weeks or months of rent is owed?

When does the Section 21 expire? did you pay any kind of deposit or have any type of tenancy agreement?

You say she's on the deeds but not on the mortgage? Because you say it was bought in his name but she's on the deeds? Download the ownership details from the land registry website for £4 if you aren't sure.

I can't understand why he's acting as a landlord if she's a joint owner so I'm confused. Did the recent court case cover ownership or a court order about the occupancy?

AllNancy

Been down all the routes except Samaritans but I need practical help.

Section 21 ends November 30th. Arrears about £2000 but that's including October and November. I pay at the end of the month. Why she is on the Land registry I have no idea...part of the court order.

The change of landlord was only different in that the rent went up. The initial agreement with landlord 1 was 6months which then became periodic. I only ever signed one agreement in six years and with the purchase there was no new agreement. No paperwork at all.

The court order stated that the cottage had to be sold for the £20K If they had paid it the property would then have transferred from him to her and she would have to have sought a mortgage. She in theory has to approve the price, estate agent etc but she can't stop it.

It is such a mess!

Nancy

Caroline_a

Oh dear Nancy, this is a mess. Sorry I can't help but sending you hugs ((((())))))

RacyRed

Hi Nancy,

I'm sorry you have found yourself in such difficult circumstances, you are obviously very upset. ((((hugs))))

Your post is a little difficult to follow, so it might be hard for those with greater knowledge of letting issues to help you. I hope you won't mind if I try to summarise the main points of what you are telling us?

Please post again and corect any points that I get wrong or haven't fully understood.

1. You moved into your cottage in 1998. It was owned by a landlord not connected with your family, and you paid rent to him.

2. Your daughter and son in law (SIL) bought the cottage from the private landlord in 2004 with the intention of providing an investment for their 2 children in the long term.

3. The deposit to buy the property was paid by your daughter?

4. The mortgage was in your SIL's name only between purchase and the divorce?

5. The deeds of the house at the time of purchase show your SIL as the sole owner?

6. Your daughter and SIL's marriage broke up in 2004, 3 months after buying the cottage.

7. During the divorce the court awarded your SIL, £20,000 as his share of the cottage and the land registy entry was changed to show her as owner?

8. Your daughter was responsible for the mortgage payments on the cottage from the date of the divorce settlement until September 30 this year.

9. The payment to your SIL was due by 30 September this year but has not been made yet? The terms of the agreement were that if the payment was not made the cottage would have to be sold.

10. You have paid to your daughter all of the rent due?

11. Your SIL has issued section 8 and Section 21 notices to you. The Section 21 gives you notice to leave the property by 30th November.

Now, what I don't understand is the following.

1. Who was paying the mortgage before responsibility of it was transferred to your daughter as part of the divorce settlement?

2. Was your SIL meant to receive any of the rent money after the divorce? If so, are those payments up to date?

3. What are the arrears your daughter has, are they for the mortgage payments or rental payments due to your SIL?

4. Who has moved to Australia?

Please correct anything I have misunderstood.

Annisele

I'm not sure I understand the situation.

Why were you paying rent to your daughter? Were you paying her because she was the landlord, because she was acting as agent to the landlord (her ex), because she was acting as your agent, or for some other reason?

If the court order just says that the property has to be sold, then that doesn't necessarily mean you have to move out (and by itself, it certainly doesn't mean that you have to move out on 30 November). It's entirely possible to sell a property with a sitting tenant, as you know - it seems that that's what happened when the property was sold from your first LL to your daughter's ex.

The section 21 also doesn't mean that you must move out on 30 November (even if it's been correctly served - and with the mess there seems to be over the tenancy agreement, it's possible it wasn't served correctly - check with Shelter). Unless a court says that you must leave, you don't have to go. Court orders regarding the position between your daughter and her ex shouldn't directly affect your tenancy rights.

You say that you've been down all routes - what did Shelter say?

G_M

I also don't understand.

Who owns the house? You say it is in your daughter's name.

Who do you pay rent to. If your daughter owns the house, she is your landlord.

If the above is true, why has your daughter issued you a S21?

JMV

I have posted a few links, below, just some other places to try...

I would also offer the following advice (and re-iterate Annisele's advice)...

Don't move out unless you have somewhere suitable to go...if you SIL wants you out he can take you to court to gain a possession order...

Sometimes the court delays making an order or it may decide not to make an order. This could be because the landlord has not followed the proper legal process. With some types of tenancy, if the court thinks that eviction is too harsh, they can delay making an order or not make an order at all.

Take the section 21 to the housing department (if you haven't already) as they can check it's legality...there are very specific rules about what has to be issued and when...

Here are some links:

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/section-21-notice-to-quit.htm <---- on Section 21

http://www.communitylegaladvice.org.uk <--- worth contacting for some specific legal advice

And some other places to try:

http://www.homeless.org.uk/homeless-uk

http://www.homelesslondon.org/details.asp?id=UK4178

Good luck...and I really do wish you well

tbs624

This must be awful for you to be caught up in the fall out from your daughter's marital problems .This sort of situation is one of the downsides of mixing family and business.

Presumably it is the SiL who has called in xxxxxxxx to try to evict you?

Whose decision was it that you should pay the rent direct to your daughter? Had you previously paid it to your SiL and then simply decided to pay it to your daughter instead because (a) she was having to pay the mg by court order and (b) she was struggling financially?


The fact that the Court has ordered her to pay the mg on the property does not alter who the LL is, and you should know *who* your LL actually is ( him/her or both of them?)

Were you formally served with a Letter of Authority, setting out to whom you were to pay your rent, plus notices under s1 of the LL & T Act 1985 and s48 of the LL&T Act 1987?

If you weren't given these then neither your SiL or your daughter could lawfully demand rent from you until such time as that information *was* given to you

When your daughter and SiL bought the property you say that you were given no new tenancy agreement to sign. Was your initial tenancy agreement with the previous LL an Assured Shorthold Tenancy? This would mean that after the Fixed Term agreement expired, you have continued your occupancy of the property under a statutory periodic agreement which can be determined by you giving one month's notice or the LL giving you two months notice, either of these to co-iincide with the rental period. (If you don't know what sort of tenancy agreement you initially had then get it checked)

You can get a Fixed Fee appointment with a solicitor to go though all of this but you want an experienced practitioner. Contact the Law Society and ask which sols specialise in LL&T issues: you will need to act promptly now that LL Action have been brought in.

Community Legal Advice can also point you toward solicitors with specific expertise but it sounds as though you would not qualify for legal aid.

****As the others have said, it is important that you know that you do not have to physically move out until, and unless, a court order says that you must.*****

You do need to clarify the rent payments issue because if you lose your home due to rent arrears you will be classed as having made yourself "intentionally homeless".

Don't use FB to contact your SiL, making offers to pay money which you say you don't actually owe to him. Even if you do owe him money it's not an appropriate way to conduct discussions.

Other possible sources of help:

0808 800 4444 Shelter - persist because the lines are always busy

Your local Council should have a private sector housing tenancy relations officer

Age UK

What is your daughter doing in the midst of all this - would you be able to live with her for a while, if necessary?

AllNancy

RacyRed wrote: »

Hi Nancy,

I'm sorry you have found yourself in such difficult circumstances, you are obviously very upset. ((((hugs)))) Thankyou. Needed

Your post is a little difficult to follow, so it might be hard for those with greater knowledge of letting issues to help you. I hope you won't mind if I try to summarise the main points of what you are telling us?

Please post again and corect any points that I get wrong or haven't fully understood.

1. You moved into your cottage in 1998. It was owned by a landlord not connected with your family, and you paid rent to him. Yes

2. Your daughter and son in law (SIL) bought the cottage from the private landlord in 2004 with the intention of providing an investment for their 2 children in the long term. Yes

3. The deposit to buy the property was paid by your daughter?
Yes We also also spent approx £9000 on improvements.

4. The mortgage was in your SIL's name only between purchase and the divorce? No Between purchase and court case for the £20k

5. The deeds of the house at the time of purchase show your SIL as the sole owner? As far as I know

6. Your daughter and SIL's marriage broke up in 2004, 3 months after buying the cottage. Yes

7. During the divorce the court awarded your SIL, £20,000 as his share of the cottage and the land registy entry was changed to show her as owner? No. about a year later. The original divorce settlement for him was £12000 but he wouldn't sign the papers thinking he was holding up the divorce. He's not bright. Infact he was holding up the money. With court battles and solicitors the money gradually went and so he took her to court again and this was when he was awarded £20K against the cottage.

8. Your daughter was responsible for the mortgage payments on the cottage from the date of the divorce settlement until September 30 this year. From the date of the court order.

9. The payment to your SIL was due by 30 September this year but has not been made yet? The terms of the agreement were that if the payment was not made the cottage would have to be sold. Yes

10. You have paid to your daughter all of the rent due? Yes He insists I owe it....he hadn't read the court order. She's been paying it for six years TO HIM. Thick or what.

11. Your SIL has issued section 8 and Section 21 notices to you. The Section 21 gives you notice to leave the property by 30th November. Yes

Now, what I don't understand is the following.

1. Who was paying the mortgage before responsibility of it was transferred to your daughter as part of the divorce settlement?
Not divorce settlement. Separate issue and I was in the form of rent.,
2. Was your SIL meant to receive any of the rent money after the divorce? If so, are those payments up to date? Doesn't apply. The rent is the mortgage Unsure of the question

3. What are the arrears your daughter has, are they for the mortgage payments or rental payments due to your SIL? £2000
Both One and the same

4. Who has moved to Australia?
Daughter

Please correct anything I have misunderstood.

Not sure if that helps. Will check CC J


Nancy

G_M

Still unclear. "The rent is the mortgage "
No.
Rent is paid by tenant to landlord.
Mortgage is paid by owner to bank/lender.

Daughter is paying the mortgage but SIL owns the property.
If SIL owns property, he is LL so is due rent.

As tbs624 says above:

Were you formally served with a Letter of Authority, setting out to whom you were to pay your rent, plus notices under s1 of the LL & T Act 1985 and s48 of the LL&T Act 1987?