How much does the UK need foreign scientists?

olly300

davilown wrote: »

We have plenty of scientists in this country

Those who are interested in academia tend to have to go aboard if they want decent pay and decent promotion prospects if they want to come back to the UK.

Or like me, many of my friends and colleagues we go into the commercial sector doing something very different.

Foreign scientists also have learnt their science in a different way coming through a different education system so teach it in a different way which is refreshing.

Hauptmann

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

We do not have enough British people studying maths and sciences and going into engineering. It is a serious problem for the future of this country.

Sure is. But maybe if studying maths and science led to a decent salary there would be more kids studying these subjects. No shortage of youngsters wanting to do law, accountancy or medicine, is there?

Fiddlestick

vivatifosi wrote: »

Science is vital to our economy and I agree that this is one area where immigration cannot be cut. What do you think?

On the whole, I'm happy with any immigrant who is willing to pay their way and will contribute to British society.

ultrawomble

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I work for an engineering dept at a top UK university. 80% of applications for all PhD studentships and research positions are from non-EU candidates, specifically from China and India.

I also work in HE and and there's a huge financial incentive for university depts to have RoW (non-UK/EU) students - the massive fees they can charge which are uncapped e.g. £20K/year. The student has to be able to support themselves on top of that. The income from these students also means that lack of talent is less worrisome, and there is pressure for them not to fail. No point in killing the golden goose.

MissMoneypenny

bendix wrote: »

i worked in australia too, but certainly didnt have to pay more tax than an Aussie.

your son was cheated.

When did you work there? What nationality were you when you worked there?

MissMoneypenny

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

We do not have enough British people studying maths and sciences and going into engineering. It is a serious problem for the future of this country.

I know quite a few UK children who have done maths and science degrees and got Firsts at the UKs top universities, but these students always get head hunted by London firms and paid a high wage, much higher than science careers pay. The London firms cream off the top students. The problem seems to be that we don't pay our top science and maths students the right wage to enter science careers.

My own daughter did a physics degree but when she realised how poor science salaries are, she favoured the jobs that paid her more and also got a job that she loves.

My son did a science degree too, but was grabbed by London firms on a starting salary of 42k (or maybe it was 44) plus bonus and perks.

ninky_2

they ran this story on Channel 4 news last night too. they were speaking to an asian phd student who had wanted to study in cambridge but was refused a visa because he wasn't earning 25k in his home country. the earnings limits obviously disadvantage those coming from countries with weaker currencies. he explained what he was working on and it sounded bloody impressive to be honest (some sort of special types of materials that have myriad applications such as circuit boards). he'd gone to study in the states instead but expressed his disappointment at not being able to take up his studies in cambridge.

we are short sighted fools. everyone thinks this uk is such an attractive option because of our nhs and welfare state. hello! they're not going to come for the weather, food or breathtaking scenery are they?

blueboy43

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

My son worked in Oz on a visa and had to pay more tax than an Australian as he wasn't an Australian citizen.

He probably filled out a form saying he was non-resident for tax purposes.

However if he was planning to work for 6 months (out of the 12 months visa) in the same place within the tax year, then he could have claimed that he was resident for tax purposes.

If he was in the second category, he would have paid the same tax as an aussie.

blueboy43

bendix wrote: »

i worked in australia too, but certainly didnt have to pay more tax than an Aussie.

your son was cheated.

This is just nonsense.

There is a differential system for non residents and residents.

If you were there say 20 years ago, this didn't exist and you also could claim some tax back when you left (to reflect that fact that Australian tax at the time spreads you tax free allowance over 52 weeks like PAYE)

MissMoneypenny

ninky wrote: »

they ran this story on Channel 4 news last night too. they were speaking to an asian phd student who had wanted to study in cambridge but was refused a visa because he wasn't earning 25k in his home country.

Really???

A prospective Tier1 visa holder from India, is allowed to multiply their Indian wage by 5.5 to reach the lowest earning for a tier 1 visa. Lots of Indians get their tier 1 visas using the multipliers.

PHD students can get universities to sponsor them on tier 2 visas, if the universty thinks they are good enough. On a tier 2 visa, the salary doesn't come into the equation. If the university (or business) thinks they are good, they will just sponsor them on a tier2.

Talks the talk,but couldn't walk the walk, maybe?