How much does the UK need foreign scientists?

misskool

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

So not really serving your own country then: more a case of doing what suits you. Why did you state that others should serve their own country, if you don't serve yours?

The point you seem to be missing is that a lot of western countries have caps, including America that you keep on mentioning. Why are you so upset about the UK bringing in these caps too?

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It's a case of doing excellent research. You brought up serving the country.

J1 visa for scholars and those in training are unlimited.
http://www.immigralaw.com/english/j1visa.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-1_visa

They are required to leave the country after their stay is over, which is the case with Tier2 visa here, unless they have served 5 years and they choose to stay.

misskool

lostinrates wrote: »

Misskool, I know from our own friends and family not all academics currently work as hard as you. At the top of their (international) game some academics do earn £100k plus..like my f-i-l but not necessarily from just their university incomes.

while I nod with the rest not acknowledging that there are incomes for truly go-getting talent, as in other careers, and there are people who coast..the discussion is unbalanced.

eta: miss moneypenny and misskool both make passionate and interesting arguments parts of both I nodded too. Thanks to both.

Yes, the ones who earn the most have an outside income or a management job on top.

There are measures in place to attract top-flight professors for salaries up to £80k. Nothing near as much as what those in other professions earn.

A PhD student on their first post-doc job will get salary ranging from 24k-32k. (think we had this point before). The UK will also need to increase salaries to attract their own best brains. IT's such a shame that where I work, there are almost no British because of the salary.

I'm enjoying the debate with Miss Moneypenny for having her views but there are other sectors to pick on first before science, perhaps?

MissMoneypenny

misskool wrote: »

It's a case of doing excellent research. You brought up serving the country.

YOU were the one who brought up "serving the country."

misskool wrote: »

Tell your son to serve the country

If you couldn't remember what you had written, you only had to look at the previous page of this thread. That's the second research error you have made on my posts alone and this is only a 3 and a half page thread.

lostinrates

misskool wrote: »

Yes, the ones who earn the most have an outside income or a management job on top.
?

The cases I'm thinking off the extra income is from published works and lectures...extra to income but dependant on the kudos of a good university position. Certainly nothing in industry or management!

eta: I appreciate this is a the very top of the game...but then so are the hatred inducing bankers' salaries.

MissMoneypenny

misskool wrote: »

I'm enjoying the debate with Miss Moneypenny for having her views but there are other sectors to pick on first before science, perhaps?

Good: perhaps you would answer this question then?

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

The point you seem to be missing is that a lot of western countries have caps, including America that you keep on mentioning. Why are you so upset about the UK bringing in these caps too?

I'm not picking on any sector. I'm posting in a thread entitled "How much does the UK need foreign scientists".

If you want to start a football one, I might post on that too:D; if I get time. Actually, I'm amazed that you find time to volunteer to be a board guide and post so much on these forums, when you work 60+ hours a week. Even I struggle to find time to post on this site (as you can see from my total post count and joining date) and I'm addicted to MSE.

misskool

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Good: perhaps you would answer this question then?


I'm not picking on any sector. I'm posting in a thread entitled "How much does the UK need foreign scientists".

If you want to start a football one, I might post on that too:D; if I get time. Actually, I'm amazed that you find time to volunteer to be a board guide and post so much on these forums, when you work 60+ hours a week. Even I struggle to find time to post on this site (as you can see from my total post count and joining date) and I'm addicted to MSE.

I'm pleased you are in awe of my multitasking. But actually, it's just a few minutes here and there. I've had a weekend off this week, as it was my birthday. Last weekend, I was at work on Saturday and Sunday doing compliance for the Home Office, nothing very exciting.

And the reason I make mistakes on here is that it's nothing serious, it's just the internet. Gosh, if only I took this as seriously as my job.

I have 5 minutes now in between processing apples for cider so I popped in and I only read this and the nice people thread.

Apologies if the serving the country tone brought up a sore point.

Again, just pointing out the reasons as to why the UK need foreign scientists (as before) is that in science there are many collaborations and the best brains gathered in one place makes light work. It's such a shame that the short sighted policies of the government means that investment in people and infrastructure will be wasted. There has been massive spending in the universities (and yes, even I think far far too much) but it would be worse for them to end up as white elephants. Far better to fill them and turn them into academic hothouses that will bring more weight to the UK.

Research plays many roles in the country, I'm here personally because I am a basic research scientist, at the moment, I'm concentrating on the initial inflammatory events in atherosclerosis and helping to understand how a high fat diet counts as an inflammatory signal. My research area of interest is aligned with the place where I work.

misskool

Sorry, i know it's a from a slightly biased source but it points out how universities can now employ VERY FEW non-EU scientists.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=413767&c=1

Interestingly, there's been a lot of talk lately about universities diversifying. Lots of places now trade on their reputation by opening campuses overseas and doing lots of teaching there but no research.

neverdespairgirl

vivatifosi wrote: »

That's crazy. People with MBAs have the ability to earn money and run companies and make a difference now, people with science PhDs have the ability to shape the future.

Don't blame me, I didn't write the rules (-: