How much does the UK need foreign scientists?

mostlycheerful

“How much does the UK need foreign scientists?”

A lot. In case anyone’s forgotten or is not aware of it one of the biggest reasons why America and UK won the Second World War and are now so rich and successful is that we have a large number of scientists and their descendants - and engineers, doctors, teachers, trades people, business people, creative people and all sorts of clever extremely useful people - who fled or were kicked out of Germany, Russia and dozens of other countries, both in the 20th century and also a lot at the end of the 19th C. We need as many as we can get. We need as many skilled and intelligent and civilised people as we can get.

neverdespairgirl

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

I was quite surpised to read that those on student visas can bring dependants with them (spouse, unmarried partner, civil partner, children) and that they all get free NHS and free schooling for the children.

It's changed, recently.

It used to be that all students could bring dependants, and any adult dependant was also entitled to work full-time in any job.

Now, the course has to be for more than 6 months before dependants can be brought to the UK.

In addition, the rules have changed on working for students. it used to be 20 hours a week max during term-time for students, and full-time in the holidays. Now it's the same as before only for degree level or higher students. The others have 10 hours a week max.

neverdespairgirl

One problem is, I think, that so many people potentially qualify for highly-skilled migrant status (tier 1), or work permits (tier 2) without actually being particularly highly skilled at anything.

MissMoneypenny

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

One problem is, I think, that so many people potentially qualify for highly-skilled migrant status (tier 1), or work permits (tier 2) without actually being particularly highly skilled at anything.

That surprised me too. There seemed to be no checks on whether they were what UK employers needed or wanted.

In America, those on the equivilant to our tier 1, can only work in the type of work they are skilled in and they have caps on numbers. In the UK, a visa holder can stack shelves in a supermarket, work in a call centre etc on their 'highly skilled' 'fresh talent' tier 1 visas. Tier 2 visa holders (filling the shortages gap that UK and EU citizens can't do) can be working in a take away.

On tier 1 visas, they are not allowed NHS until they have a job (any low paid job) or have resided in the UK for 1 year, but no checks are being done at the GPs surgeries. No checks seem to be done for those on visas and claiming welfare payments that they aren't allowed access to, either.

lostinrates

UK or EU needing the scientists?

I agree this would be a shortsighted cap....science is harder to learn, IMO, than learning how to cook certain recipes, for example....cited because its one of the loudest areas decrying caps. But some commercial applications of science are as international as other professions now. e.g. employment impact of the Sanofi-aventis Merck merger that isn't a merger.

Hauptmann

My brother-in-law is an incredibly clever engineer who works in a university. For many years his department have been short-staffed because they cannot attract new lecturers due to the relatively poor pay. More than half of his colleagues are from overseas - they are keen to get into the UK and will accept university salaries. After 4-5 years they leave and either go abroad or into the commercial sector.
Poor academic pay is the real problem and a deterrent to talented UK and EU people, who can earn a lot more in the private sector.
I've worked all my life in the motor industry and I'm amazed that a university professor only earns about the same as a decent salesman in a franchised dealership (but without perks such as car, fuel and medical ins.).
With a pay freeze in the public sector the situation will only get worse and there will be even more demand for lower cost talent from overseas.

FTBFun

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

My son worked in Oz on a visa and had to pay more tax than an Australian as he wasn't an Australian citizen.

Yep, same here for me - I had to pay 30% tax with no tax free allowance.

Bit grating when most Aussies over here on WHVs try and dodge as much tax as possible, usually through umbrella companies.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I work for an engineering dept at a top UK university. 80% of applications for all PhD studentships and research positions are from non-EU candidates, specifically from China and India. We do a lot of international collaboration where visiting profs and students from other institutions come and undertake research in our labs for brief periods. Organising these short term visits gets harder every year.

We do not have enough British people studying maths and sciences and going into engineering. It is a serious problem for the future of this country.

bendix

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

My son worked in Oz on a visa and had to pay more tax than an Australian as he wasn't an Australian citizen.

i worked in australia too, but certainly didnt have to pay more tax than an Aussie.

your son was cheated.

FTBFun

bendix wrote: »

i worked in australia too, but certainly didnt have to pay more tax than an Aussie.

your son was cheated.

Australia operates a separate system of tax for non-residents (or did when I was there in 03/04) where 30% tax is levied straight away, with no tax free allowance.

It is possible to argue residence status although that is fairly tricky for those on WHV as they tend to be fairly transient - I ended up leaving 3 days before my visa expired so later was able to claim some tax back - however that is not possible for all.