How much does the UK need foreign scientists?

olly300

vivatifosi wrote: »

That's crazy. People with MBAs have the ability to earn money and run companies and make a difference now, people with science PhDs have the ability to shape the future.

A PhD can be in any subject and the government hasn't given a weighting for the subject area in educational qualifications.

vivatifosi

olly300 wrote: »

A PhD can be in any subject and the government hasn't given a weighting for the subject area in educational qualifications.

I understand that and I'm not arguing that the government should start letting in world experts on Roy Orbison or something equally stupid, just that the rules clearly need finessing so that science, maths, technology and engineering are more valued.

sss555s

vivatifosi wrote: »

That's crazy. People with MBAs have the ability to earn money and run companies and make a difference now, people with science PhDs have the ability to shape the future.

Sorry to change the direction but...

So if Johnny is very capable of getting his PhD but only gets his MBA because his circumstances changed, does that mean he isn't capable of shaping the future?

What i mean is qualifications don't mean everything and in most instances you'll find people in very high positions who haven't got the basic criteria.

vivatifosi

sss555s wrote: »

What i mean is qualifications don't mean everything and in most instances you'll find people in very high positions who haven't got the basic criteria.

I agree. I would imagine that there are other contributing factors that would add points, but NDG was talking about education and I don't know what other areas you would get points for. Believe me, I don't have anything against MBAs, I just think science based PhDs should not be valued lower than them. Maybe I'm not making myself clear and rambling, I don't know, I'm tired and have had raging sciatica for 3 days.

sss555s

vivatifosi wrote: »

Maybe I'm not making myself clear and rambling, I don't know, I'm tired and have had raging sciatica for 3 days.

Yes viva, get a grip or what will you be like after qualys

vivatifosi

sss555s wrote: »

Yes viva, get a grip or what will you be like after qualys

Good point. May need to get to bed shortly as I know the TV will be on at Tifosi Towers from about 5am.

sss555s

vivatifosi wrote: »

Good point. May need to get to bed shortly as I know the TV will be on at Tifosi Towers from about 5am.

I wont be watching it until the BBC wake up properly with Lee hosting the program :cool:

MissMoneypenny

misskool wrote: »

To qualify for Tier 1, you will need to earn £35k or more and have a phd and be under 35.

That's not right, you don't need a PHD for any Tier 1 visa. On the Tier 1 (General) visa that you seem to be talking about, you can have a masters (even in something like book binding) earn 30k (in more than one job and using the relevant multipliers for your country) and be under age 30. That will get a Tier1 (at the moment). If your are refused this type of visa, you can appeal it.
If you are older than 30k, then you need to be earning more.

It was just 25k earnings until this government raised it to 30K and put in temporary caps until they can devise a system to make sure we are only getting the highly skilled.

You can also earn a high salary (something like 150K) and have no degree and be allowed a Tier1 (General) visa. I think this may have been brought in by this govenment.

There seem to be 4 types of Tier 1 visas. There is no Tier 1 caps on Tier 1 (Investors) or Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) visas, in fact the government are looking at ways of encouraging more people to the country on these type of Tier 1 visas as these people create jobs and wealth for the country.

misskool wrote: »

PhD students enter the country on Tier4 (the old student visas). The universities are now limited in the number of Tier2 workers they are allowed to sponsor, even more so with the new immigration caps.

Most western countries have caps: even America.
MAC has recommended to parliament, that the government raises the cap on Tier 2 visas, at the expense of the cap on Tier 1 visas. MAC said that no business had supported the Tier 1 (General and Post Study Work) visas.

MissMoneypenny

vivatifosi wrote: »

That's crazy. People with MBAs have the ability to earn money and run companies and make a difference now, people with science PhDs have the ability to shape the future.

Tell that to Richard Branson and Bill Gates. Neither of them have a degree.

MissMoneypenny

sleepyj wrote: »

No you're wrong. Most of the top brains in this country have been railroaded into the banking sector. I'm lecturing at one of the top universities and I see them get swooped up with high digit salary offers. While we get applications from many many foreign students wanting to take up PhD's, its much rarer to get a British student now. It's the same with postdocs. Quite simply, to keep Britain as an international leader in research we need the best talent, and it doesn't tend to come from Britain as we've lost an entire generation of scientists to banking.

MY son was at a top English university and was grabbed by the banking sector. They have asked him to go back to his uni on one of the business open days and grab some more. They want certain degrees from the universities they have identified that turn out the type of person they want.