Co-op bank accusing me of fraud!

NotAFraudster

Hi,

I applied for a Cashminder a/c early this month with the Co-op, wanting somewhere seperate from my main account for spending money and liking the Co-op's ethical policy (such as it is, given everything). The application went through, it was referred and I was told that I didn't need to provide any identification. It's worth mentioning at this point that I've never had any issues opening accounts before, or proving my identity. I'm on the electoral roll, and have pretty much any document a bank would want to see to open an account. I've checked my credit file, everything is up to date, my correct address is showing, there's no CIFAS markers on file, everything's good.

I call back a couple of days later to hear that a decision hasn't been made, call back later. I do that, a decision hasn't been made, call back tomorrow. I play cat and mouse like this until 5 days have passed (being told it'd be done in a couple of days) and after calling back again someone says they'll pull my application out of the queue, it'll be done in an hour. Call back an hour later, and the application has for some reason been declined, and I am told that the reason is "discrepancies between information you have provided and databases", and that if I want to know why I should write in - no elaboration was given, or has been given, as to what information has discrepancies with what databases. A little bit perplexing, what with having given them all correct information. Not wanting to have wasted all this time (ha ha) I wrote in a letter asking what these discrepancies were and what steps I could take.

Wait a couple of days. Call up again, it having been a week and a bit now and just wanting the account open. Get told my letter has been received but that my appeal has been declined. The operator tells me then that I should go into a branch with my ID documents (driver's license, passport and this year's council tax bill) and they can call through to verify my identity. He says that, shockingly, the only reason they would ever decline a Cashminder account is fraud - so essentially, the Co-op think I'm a fraudster!

So I go to the branch on the following Saturday, taking a bus trip to the town centre to take ID documents down. The girl at the front desk takes the docs, photocopies them but doesn't phone anyone, and says they can't when I ask about it. I get told these docs will be sent off and someone will look at it.

More days pass. Call up on Tuesday to hear that ID docs won't be sent out from branch until that evening, call back on Thursday... but it doesn't make any difference, because the appeal has been declined and the answer would still be no!

What then follows is me calling to make a complaint, getting cut off, calling again, getting cut off and then finally calling back to get passed to someone shirty who interrupts me all the time and finally a manager who does exactly the same thing. Nobody is willing to listen, and I still haven't had a proper reply to the "appeal" letter, which by this time was sent just under two weeks ago. Again nobody cares.

Call up AGAIN the next day, sick of being led around, and ask for some answers. The guy who picks up the phone is immediately defensive when I explain my problem, again cutting me off and in the end driving me to shouting by not even letting me explain anything and constantly interrupting me, telling me I shouldn't have been told about the discrepancies over the phone and that it's "more than his job's worth" to tell me why the app was declined. Even after going through an ID procedure (which obviously I pass first time, being me) he won't confirm or deny anything, and basically stonewalls me. Eventually I get put through to a manager, the first person in this whole stupid thing who seems to have actually listened to a word I've said. I explained everything to her, she said she could see my frustrations and that she'd get the rep I'd just been speaking to to to chase it up the next day and get a letter sent out. I ask her if there's any chance, any chance at all that the account might be opened; which frankly is the only thing I wanted in the first place, and god knows I'm not giving up now, and she says she doesn't think so. That was last Thursday. Call up again today, nothing as yet, letter might be going out tomorrow...

Has anyone else had this before? I'm absolutely appalled by the Co-op basically treating me like a criminal even after I've gone out of my way to prove who I am, try and explain any "discrepancies" (not that they'll tell me what they are!) and hold on the phone for ages (must have spent a bundle on phone calls to their 0845 number) just to find out exactly what the problem is! What on earth can I do? Is it not a breach of the Data Protection Act to hold incorrect personal information and not allow someone to correct it? Perhaps someone from the Co-op could actually explain some of this?

AnonymousForObviousReason

I think they have to tell you about why you've been declined, unless it's to do with fraud or money laundering. How recently did you check your credit file? Might be worth checking again.

saf87

The only reason a cash minder application would be declined is if you have failed the anti fraud and/or anti money laundering check. If this is the case then as infuriating as I can imagine it would be they won’t be able to give you any specific details as that could constitute the criminal offence of 'tipping off'

If you don’t have any CIFAS markers then the app will have failed either the SIRA check or the co-ops in house Detect scoring system. As they have said to you that there are discrepancies it sounds like you failed SIRA. This is a system which looks for inconsistencies in the information you provided by cross referencing it with information you have provided in previous applications or known fraudulent patterns.

To be honest with you if it is SIRA then it’s very unlikely that they will overturn the decision. You could try going into branch with as much ID as you have and asking them to process a new in branch application. That way they will record the forms of ID witnessed as part of the application process and when the app gets referred it should depending on the exact reason for the referal get looked at more favourably.

bengal-stripe

You might want to contact National Hunter, a credit-fraud checking agency.

You can ask for a copy of the information held about you:

http://www.nhunter.co.uk/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hunter

pmduk

There are standard rate numbers available for most Co-op Bank numbers on https://www.saynoto0870.com. Sorry I can't be any more help.

NotAFraudster

First off, thanks for the reply.

saf87 wrote: »

The only reason a cash minder application would be declined is if you have failed the anti fraud and/or anti money laundering check. If this is the case then as infuriating as I can imagine it would be they won’t be able to give you any specific details as that could constitute the criminal offence of 'tipping off'

But at the same time there's absolutely nothing indicating any form of money laundering. Even setting aside that I have no money to launder, nor any need to launder any money, the Co-op haven't even seen a single transaction, let alone one that might indicate money laundering. I don't even use cash for crying out loud!

If you don’t have any CIFAS markers then the app will have failed either the SIRA check or the co-ops in house Detect scoring system. As they have said to you that there are discrepancies it sounds like you failed SIRA. This is a system which looks for inconsistencies in the information you provided by cross referencing it with information you have provided in previous applications or known fraudulent patterns.

This sounds totally implausible to me; all of the information I've provided has been the same information I've provided to anyone else. Just within the last three months I managed to open (and subsequently close, because they're sh*t, hence Co-op application) a full Lloyds TSB account and a (not closed at all) Sygma Bank credit card without a hitch. I can honestly state hand on heart I've never lied on a single application for anything. The Co-op are the only ones to raise a stink. In fact they did the same when I applied for a Cashminder three years ago(!), when I had even less money... I was hoping things had changed!

Also, wouldn't going into branch and doing another application just make things look even more suspect to them (for whatever reason they look suspect now... :S)

Fedz

I use 01695 53760 for telephone banking & have done for years I think but, according to SayNoTo0870 01695 53750 "Telephone banking: Straight to operator" saves pressing buttons on the telephone banking number

HTH

saf87

NotAFraudster wrote: »

Also, wouldn't going into branch and doing another application just make things look even more suspect to them (for whatever reason they look suspect now... :S)

If you really want an account then its worth a try.

The process for in branch account openings is slightly different to phone/online. If I was you I would make an appointment at your local branch, take as much paperwork/ID as you can to support your application and explain the situation to them. Ask them to put a new app through whilst you are there.

If it it referres ask them to phone the account openings dep and notepad all the details on the application so when an analyst looks at it they won’t just out right decline the app. If necessary ask to speak to the branch manager.

Are you certain that you have no CIFAS markers? and gave address, employment and income details which are consistent with any previous apps even if with other institutions?
Do you have any previous history with co-op products & services from either the bank or insurance arm?
I will PM you a direct phone number you can use to get straight through to applications opening team.

chexum

NotAFraudster wrote: »

This sounds totally implausible to me; all of the information I've provided has been the same information I've provided to anyone else.

It could have been something very dumb (of them) that you provided, but didn't check completely:

- address field ignoring (but showing) letters from housenumbers like 10A, it could be that they convert it to 10 A, then wanting to match up with 10A
- it could be that you misread one of the fields and it wanted monthly income instead of annual, or asked for thousands, or a digit was left out (or added) accidently
- it could be a discrepancy with net/gross annual/monthly salary, even if you have it correctly, because of pensions/benefits, or childcare vouchers, interest income

I'm not saying at all that those are valid reasons for suspecting fraud - I have nothing to do with the banking industry except as a consumer of application forms

Another chance is that someone else made fraudulent applications in your name (checking car insurance notes, with slightly incorrect details).

It's even possible that simply they are using a different anti-fraud agency/database than the rest of your earlier banks did - saf87 mentioned SIRA, which seems to be a building society friendly entity. The rest often uses National Hunter via Experian and most use CIFAS on top. It could be that one building society has less than fond memory of an earlier application of yours. Or simply your area started to become more targeted by fraud, hence increasing the risk.

I don't know if you have any reason to complain about co-op, even if they in general refuse only applications when fraud is suspected, they can reject anyone for any reason.

The most you can probably get is the name of the database (companies) they use to verify application details, and then send a subject access request about the data that they hold abut you to the company involved if you're really desperate about it.

saf87

The co-op do not use National Hunter but prefer SIRA by Synetics Solutions. It’s also sometimes called SIRAN and the data is mined via Equifax. It’s used very extensively by insurance and mail order companies so could very well of picked up on something old that you where not expecting

alanrowell

chexum wrote: »

address field ignoring (but showing) letters from housenumbers like 10A, it could be that they convert it to 10 A, then wanting to match up with 10A.

Surprisingly common. Up here in Edinburgh addresses can come in several formats - the Royal Mail version is building number followed by a slash followed by the flat number. The council use building number followed by floor number, then the letter F followed by the flat number - which is the position of the flat on the floor realtive to the stairs. There's also an even older version where you have building number / floor number then "FL" for "front left", "FR" for front right, "BL" for back left, etc where it's the physical position on the floor which decides the address.

However when you go to a website to register you often can just put in the postcode and it will give you a list of addresses using the PAF system. You do that - for example select 999/9 and then be told that "/" is an invalid character for an address :mad:

So you remove the '/' and then you are told it doesn't match any address :mad::mad: