O2 New Draconian Terms & Conditions

SenorGroucho

redux wrote:

O2 probably had lawyers frame the new terms.

who rely on the apppathy and ignorance of the general public to make whatever changes they think they can get away with.

Why do people go on about cancelling contracts without identifying whether they are at any disadvantage?

The change made in the new T&Cs that you can no longer sell your phone is in itself sufficient enough to count as a breech of your original contract.
Anyone who is not happy with the new T&Cs should in the first instance write to O2 and reject the new T&Cs on the basis of substantive change (can't sell the phone and reduced data protection) and ask for written confirmation that your original T&Cs be reinstated. Should O2 reject your claim then you would have to approach Oftel for their take on the matter.

bbb_uk

I'm no lawyer but everything seems to be within the letter of the law although I do have two slight points:-

• They state you can't resell phone, etc which is probably true whilst you're in the minimum term contract because the phone surely remains the property of o2 until such time as you've legally finished the contract.
  
  Now, after you're outside your minimum term contract then I can't see that legally o2 could stop you from selling that on as you legally own that phone then.
  
  
• As for the monitoring of calls/location then this is done anyhow and has to be kept for the police, etc for when they request. I'm under the understanding that text messages can be kept as well under the RIPA 2000 act which was brought in probably because of September 11th.
  
  As mentioned in the link in a previous post from The Register, then it appears legal so long as they don't sell or pass it to anyone without our knowledge as that would break the DPA. It can be used for billing purposes and for passing onto the authorities when requested for the prevention and detection of fraud and other criminal activities.
  
  What I'm not sure about is which companies o2 specifically mean when they pass on this information and for what purposes.

SenorGroucho

bbb_uk wrote:

They state you can't resell phone, etc which is probably true whilst you're in the minimum term contract because the phone surely remains the property of o2 until such time as you've legally finished the contract.

Under the original T&Cs no mention is made of the phone being the property of O2...the default position being that as in nearly everything bought from a shop the item is yours to do as you will. The contract was for the airtime only.

Now, after you're outside your minimum term contract then I can't see that legally o2 could stop you from selling that on as you legally own that phone then.

Obviously the T&Cs of any contract apply only for the length of the contract.

[*]As for the monitoring of calls/location then this is done anyhow and has to be kept for the police, etc for when they request. I'm under the understanding that text messages can be kept as well under the RIPA 2000 act which was brought in probably because of September 11th.

As mentioned in the link in a previous post from The Register, then it appears legal so long as they don't sell or pass it to anyone without our knowledge as that would break the DPA. It can be used for billing purposes and for passing onto the authorities when requested for the prevention and detection of fraud and other criminal activities.

What I'm not sure about is which companies o2 specifically mean when they pass on this information and for what purposes.[/list]

They seem to want you to sign away all your rights under the data protection act and pass/sell all information regarding all aspects of your phone usage to anyone they want to.

[IANAL but did spend considerable time discussing this issue with one]

redux

SenorGroucho wrote:

They seem to want you to sign away all your rights under the data protection act and pass/sell all information regarding all aspects of your phone usage to anyone they want to.

Is this opinion or fact?

What list of other parties have they provided? As far as I can see they are only talking of bad credit cases. If someone is in arrears in their payments, is it unreasonable for O2 to tell their agents how much to collect? Or notify other networks that they have been a victim of fraud by a certain customer?

petermcuk

Thanks to everyone who picked up this thread and got the gist . I was flamed at first and thought I had the wrong end of the stick. I'm glad to have at least got a few of you reading just how bias these T&Cs are. I don't know what i will do but thanks all!!!

redux

petermcuk wrote:

We have extended the ways in which we may use information about you and your use of the service – which may now include communications made and received by you and the date, duration, time and cost of such communications and the location of your mobile phone (clause 18.3).

OUTRAGIOUS!!!!!!!!!! 1984 has arrived!!!!!

petermcuk wrote:

Thanks to everyone who picked up this thread and got the gist . I was flamed at first and thought I had the wrong end of the stick. I'm glad to have at least got a few of you reading just how bias these T&Cs are. I don't know what i will do but thanks all!!!

I think in the OP you have got the wrong idea

But if you don't like it, change your privacy settings

nb this is not new, and you could have changed these settings for ages, by dialling 1300 free

Note carefully that this does not mean that O2 are using your location for their commercial ends, but are establishing that you must consent in order to make extra services usable that you choose to subscribe to

http://www.o2.co.uk/privacy.html

FAQS on other related issues
a) Location information
b) How can you avoid receiving SPAM?

a) Location Information

Some web and mobile telephone services that you use from your O2 mobile may require us to disclose information about the location of your mobile phone to third parties. By using location-based services such as 'Find My Nearest ATM' or 'Friend Finder', you consent to O2 disclosing your information to third parties required to provide you with the service. The information that we provide to third parties will be an approximate location only.

However if do not wish your location to be disclosed for some or all services, please call our Location Services Privacy Controller (LSPC) by dialling 1300, free of charge from your O2 mobile (for non-O2 customers, please contact your network provider). If you have contacted the LSPC and decided to withhold your location information you may not be able to access certain services that require this information.

Location Services Privacy Controller (LSPC)

You can control how the location of your mobile is used to provide you with services by dialling the LSPC on 1300, free of charge from your O2 mobile.
You can choose a location status from the list below by following the voice prompts
a. You can be found by all location services, including those that allow other user to find you. These services may include those such as "Find a buddy" type services where you and your friends can find each other
b. You can be found by all location services that you use from your own mobile. These services will only locate you each time you use the service, by calling or sending a text message for example
c. You can be found by all O2 location services but not by services that require your location to be disclosed to any third party services
d. You cannot be found by any location services, except by the emergency services in the event that you make an emergency call from your mobile.

joelpub

hurrah wrote:

Interesting article here http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/04/mobile_phone_location_data/
on this subject

i notice in this link slagging off o2 theres a nice advert for ORANGE

SenorGroucho

Originally Posted by SenorGroucho
They seem to want you to sign away all your rights under the data protection act and pass/sell all information regarding all aspects of your phone usage to anyone they want to.

redux wrote:

Is this opinion or fact?

You have to opt out of the clause that gives O2 the right by default to use and pass on (sell?) all the information held on you and your phone usage to "...our associated companies, partners or agents...". ie just about anyone they do business with.
Given that virtually no one will ever read the small print of online T&Cs and opt out then O2 can do pretty much what they like with everyones information

What list of other parties have they provided? As far as I can see they are only talking of bad credit cases. If someone is in arrears in their payments, is it unreasonable for O2 to tell their agents how much to collect? Or notify other networks that they have been a victim of fraud by a certain customer?

Under the new T&Cs they have extended the right to (sell?) use and distribute your infomation in civil matters (in addition to criminal matters as before).
In any case the principle change in the T&Cs is instead that you are now not allowed to sell your phone during the contract period.

redux

SenorGroucho wrote:

You have to opt out of the clause that gives O2 the right by default to use and pass on (sell?) all the information held on you and your phone usage to "...our associated companies, partners or agents...". ie just about anyone they do business with.
Given that virtually no one will ever read the small print of online T&Cs and opt out then O2 can do pretty much what they like with everyones information

I'm sorry to put it like this, but your remarks are untrue and wilfully misleading.

Their privacy T&C I quoted above clearly explain that these settings allow people to subscribe to services they decide they want to use.

You are not about to pass through any town and start receiving spam advertising messages from local businesses, which is what you seem to be trying to inspire paranoia about.

O2 give the instances that they mean - credit references, other telecoms companies, debt collectors. How could they commission their agents to pursue defaulting customers without saying who and how much is involved, or co-operate with their rivals in identifying wide-scale fraudsters?

You do not have to opt out, and people that do not read the T&C are not set by default on the wrong settings; this is a lie.

Dial 1300 (free) and unless you have previously changed settings, you will be told that you can be found by all location services that you use from your own mobile. So read b. above: "These services will only locate you each time you use the service, by calling or sending a text message for example".

So, if you have subscribed to none, then there will be none.

SenorGroucho

Here are the relevant T&CS...highlighted to help comprehension.

18.3 You authorise us to use and disclose, in the UK and abroad,information about you,your use of the Service including, but not limited to, phone numbers and/or email addresses of calls, texts and other communications (“Communications“) made and received by you and the date, duration, time and cost of such Communications, how you conduct your account and the location of your Mobile Phone [......]to our associated companies, partners or agents,[.....]


18.4 You also agree to the information described in paragraph 18.3 being used, analysed and assessed by us and the other parties identified in paragraph 18.3 and selected third parties for marketing purposes including amongst other things to identify and offer you by phone, post, the Network your Mobile Phone, email, text (SMS), media messaging, automated dialling equipment or other means, any further products, services and offers which we think might interest you. If you do not wish your details to be used for marketing purposes, please write to us c/o The Data Controller, O2 (UK) Limited 260 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4DX [...]

Aditional services (bolt-ons whatever) are generally covered by their own T&Cs.