New caravan falling to bits and the sellers aren't interested

verityboo

Have you established why the wheel fell off?

The sale of goods act cover you for up to 6 years but as it appears that you have owned the van for more than 6 months, it is for you to get an independent report confirming that any faults were inherent and not due to wear, missuse or lack of prescribed maintenance etc. If you have not had the van serviced as per the manufacturers schedule, you also have the problem of proving that the lack of maintenance had no bearing on the failure. To proceed further you would need to obtain the reports and take the supplier to the small claims court, you could reclaim the cost of the reports if you won.

Like others have said, I think the lack of servicing means you have little hope of success

(sorry if its not the reply you want. Perhaps you should have stated in your original post what you wanted everyone to say!)

wealdroam

Mark1971 wrote: »

Am I on the wrong forum?

No... don't think so.

Mark1971 wrote: »

I thought you got expert advice on here?

Generally people on forums will offer advice or opinions to the best of their ability.

Whether they are experts or not, no-one can tell.

I guess you don't like the answers you have been given.
Probably because they tend not to be supporting you.
The truth sometimes hurts.

Mark1971 wrote: »

If not can anyone point me in the right direction please.

Consumer Direct.

Citizens Advice Bureau.

A solicitor.

Freddie_Snowbits

OP, I am minded to say that you will get a better response from posters if you can put forward, in a concise way your misgivings about your caravan. Otherwise some, am I include myself in this, will not give you the absolution you want.

1. Every thing we buy is subject to some kind of teathing trouble, if you point these out in a clear manner, you have to allow the seller an opportunity to fix these things.

2 If the said caravan is under warranty, there are terms and conditions that need to be applied to comply with the warranty, just because you choose not to read these, does not perclude you from adhereing to them. Just because you do not want to do so. Just teh same as the OILS. WATER and TYRES on the car need checking, then the same could be said about checking the caravan TYRE. Yes, things can become loose, but if they are to do so, they normally do not just become loose, but suffer a gradual degardation over time. On a tyre this is called wear. On the wheel (Alleged by yourself) this came off after 540 mile. To me it just did not come off, and if you were involved in an accident (which are caused), it would be the driver of the vehicle and caravan that is at fault, regardless of what your warranty or what you think. I note they have already told you this, and also note about the missing service (Alleged)

For your conecvience, I have quoted your post in full, some inthe parish ammend their version when absolution is not given.

I have also taken the libery to highlight certain points

Mark1971 wrote: »

Hi all,
To cut a long story short we purchased a brand new caravan about a year and a half ago and it has and is gradually falling to bits.
I have been a long and hard telephon and email battle with Robinsons (not the jam makers ) for a while now and I am posting the email conversations between us both below for you to look at and hopefuly advise me on as I honestly am not 100% sure where I stand yet.
We have also had phone conversations too.
The last one was yesterday when I was told I need to contact the Black Horse finance company, which I have done earlier and sent them copies of the emails below.
Any help would be much appreciated and any questions will be answered asap (I do work full time and don't get home until 4.30pm).
It is a very long post I am sorry as I wanted to include as much detail as possible, and is best read from the bottom of the post upwards.
Thank you very much.
Mark.

Hi C,

Thank you for the e-mail and phone call earlier regarding the next steps to be taken.
I will be in touch with Black Horse finance later and will also be seeking expert advice on the wheel matter.
I must say that I didn’t think it would come to this but I am not going to stop now until it is sorted one way or the other ( I thought a little customer care could have resolved this matter easier).
I will be forwarding these e-mails to various caravan magazines and newspapers and watchdog type television programmes.
I am sorry you seem to be taking the brunt of my outrage all the time as you have only been doing your job and the phone call earlier was very helpful and probably saved us all some embarrassment.
I don’t suppose you can give me any contact information that will get directly to the manager/owner of Robinsons?

Thanks
Mark


Apologies for the delay in replying. I have just returned to work this morning after few days annual leave and opened your most recent email.
Please be assured that I will be able to give you a more detailed reply by 4pm this afternoon.

Regards





Hi Ca,

11 days later I am still waiting for a reply, this is disgusting!!
I am assuming you have swept this matter under the carpet and just don’t care.
I will give you until the end of play on Monday 20th of this month 2010.
If I have not heard from you by then I will be arriving at your Brimmington site about 5pm on the Tuesday with the caravan.
I will be expecting someone of some authority to be there to discuss this matter with, and if it is not resolved to our satisfaction, the caravan will stay with you until I have proved a full repair, replacement or refund is required.
Look forward to seeing you Tuesday.

Mr





Hi

In reply to your comments I have the following comments to make.

I have been in touch with the insurance company and they are telling me that for a wheel to fall off a brand new caravan, for no reason whatsoever, and after only 540 miles (Yes I have worked out the mileage give or take a couple) must have been caused by a faulty or possibly over tightened wheel nut or nuts (any slight fault on even one nut) that has gradually worsened over the few miles it had done, this would then cause loosening of the remaining nuts (unnoticeable until it is too late) resulting, as I stated in an earlier e mail that the nuts where found in a pile a few yards back down the road as if the wheel had been pulled off by some powerful machinery.
It wasn’t until we heard the loose wheel (obviously rolling about and causing damage to the wheel arch spat and rear sill) that we knew something was wrong and immediately pulled over upon where the wheel dropped off, had it not been for the spare wheel carrier under the van I think the damage would have been worse.
So obviously they told me it should be covered by the manufacturer or suppliers warranty as they know how long we have owned the caravan and how old it is etc.
I told them I may have invalidated my warranty by not having it serviced within a year and 60 days of purchasing it, we discussed a lot of things, it would take me forever to recite the whole conversation but they bought up a few good points which I am now going to explain to you.
They first of all asked if it was made perfectly clear upon purchasing the caravan the conditions of the warranty.
I now know the conditions after reading them in the handbook but wasn’t made aware at the time or I would have assured it was serviced on time.
Secondly after the damaged occurred on April the 2nd I contacted Robinsons within a week (making this contact well within the year and 60 days) about what had happened and for a price for the repairs and was never told at any time by Paul I think his name was or anyone else for that matter, and obviously you have all the details and dates etc. That the caravan was due a service to keep the warranty valid, or I would again have had it serviced immediately.
Instead I got a ridiculous estimate of about £375 I think it was for the repairs including labour costs of £150 for a job which I think I could have performed myself in about half an hour.
Which is why I declined the repairs and started trying to source the parts for myself, which is why this has dragged on so long before contacting you again more recently about this and other things that are wrong with the caravan.
I mean the awning light has been temperamental since the day of purchase but you have your holidays booked for the year and think ‘I will let Robinsons know about this problem after our holidays as it is something we can live with, and our holidays are booked, and can’t be altered as we have set holidays where we work’.
The interior down light surrounds have also been dropping off gradually from day one but again you just think the same.
The bed I thought was not level, I have checked with a level and found it is level and it was the accumulation of bed sheet and duvet thickness at one end under the mattress that caused the feeling of it not being level.
The gas bottle cover situation has been resolved although I am yet to contact him until all this other stuff has been resolved satisfactorily.
Anyway getting to the main point considering all the above, and considering your blunt “warranty is invalid” reply I have come to the conclusion that you at least try to reconsider the terms of your warranty (In this case especially), taking into consideration what has happened to the van over so little time and extremely low mileage, and the fact that we were never made aware of the terms of the warranty upon purchase or during an estimate for repairs, and not so much as a letter or e mail or phone call as a reminder.
I am currently seeking legal advice on the matter and will be contacting Trading Standards and any other services that may be helpful.
All I am asking is that this matter is reconsidered by you and sorted out to our satisfaction, as apart from these faults I don’t think I would have a different caravan, the layout and weight was ideal for us.
My Hands are now getting tired of typing so if the correspondence is not satisfactory I think we ought to have a meeting about the matter.
I am beginning to learn my rights as a customer of an unsatisfactory product and even more unsatisfactory customer aftercare and as I said I am seeking legal advice on this matter and will go to newspapers if necessary and am even looking into claiming a full refund or replacement due to the Merchantable Quality of the caravan given its price and longevity.

Hope to hear from you soon,

Mark





Good Afternoon Mr.
Following your email, I have now had a chance to speak to the people with the necessary technical knowledge and would make the following comments.

1. It would seem that the incident with your wheels would be an insurance issue rather than a warranty one. If the wheel had come off due to a manufacturing fault, it would have manifested itself before April and we would have had similar incidents of this kind if it was common to that particular model of van. Therefore we suggest that you contact your insurance company for their advice regarding making a claim.

• Regarding the gas bottle box being painted, I have spoken to Tony from Nottingham Trim Repairs who was able to recall going out to your home to do the job but he was unable to because it was raining. He can remember giving you one of his business cards and suggested that you call him when the weather changed and so that you could agree a mutually suitable date for the work to be done. Having heard nothing for over a year, he assumed that you had either resolved it yourself or decided not to have it done. He can still be contacted on his mobile number: 0797 . As we have already promised you that this work would be done, please ring him and he has the authorisation from us to complete the job and invoice us accordingly.

• Your Service Handbook states: ‘Remember your annual service is important to maintain the validity of your warranty and must be carried out by an NCC or Lunar Approved Service Centre using genuine parts, recommended sealants and following Lunar procedures, failure to do so will invalidate your warranty. Your Lunar warranty is conditional on annual servicing being carried out within 60 days either side of the anniversary of the purchase date for interim years. Your service handbook must be stamped accordingly.’ As this has not been done, this means that you have invalidated the warranty and therefore no parts or labour can be claimed under the warranty. If you would like us to obtain an estimate for any replacement parts & labour, please let us know.

Hope this answers your queries but if we can be of any further assistance, please let us know.

Regards

Hi Carole,

Thanks for forwarding my email on to the Service Department.
The Caravan was serviced or checked by Robinsons upon purchase before we actually picked it up and hasn’t had another service yet.
A good friend of ours who deals in caravans recommended Derbyshire Caravan Services at Chesterfield, so the Caravan was booked in for its first service after our upcoming August bank holiday trip to Skegness, but I don’t really want it servicing while parts of it are missing, I may arrange a later service with them or yourselves afterwards.
The incident with the wheel happened on the Friday the 2nd of April as we were on our way to Skegness, the incident luckily occurred in Alfreton about 5 minutes into the journey.
As for the person who came to repair the gas box lid, I cannot remember his name or the company he worked for but I do know that when we were sold the van, Roger told us that the bloke who would come and do the repair didn’t work for Robinsons and he didn’t come in a Robinsons van.
Hope this information helps.
Hope to hear from you soon and Thank you.

Mark


Good Afternoon Mr.
I’ve received a copy of your email and will forward this to our Service Department for investigation. However in order to expediate the matter, please can you let me have the following information:

• When was your first service carried out? If this wasn’t done by ourselves, do you have proof of service as this would be required if a warranty claim proves necessary?
• When did the incident with the wheel happen? You mention it was on your fourth outing with the van but don’t specify a date?
• Was the person who came out to repair the gas box in a ‘Robinsons’ van or a ‘Nottingham Trim Repairs’ van?

Once I have this information, I will forward to the necessary party for them to reply more fully.
Thank you.


Hi,

We purchased a Lunar Zenith EB from new, from your Brimington department last year.
Since we have had the caravan we have now used it six times in total, but from the first time we used it we have noticed that the exterior (awning) light is very temperamental, bits of the interior lighting casing have slowly started falling apart (photos attached), when you are lay in bed you tend to roll from the edge of the bed (near the side of the van) to the middle of the van, and on closer inspection it isn’t level and doesn’t even look level (photo attached.
On our fourth outing in the van we had a wheel fall off the van for no apparent reason, I have always tested the wheel nuts with a torque wrench according to the user manual before every journey and have never had to tighten the nuts, but on this journey the wheel came off (luckily it was in a built up area and we were only going about 20mph) and the second i realised something was wrong i pulled over and the wheel fell off.
The wheel took with it the rear sill and wheel spat, as I walked back up the road to collect the debris I found all five wheel nuts almost in a pile as if the wheel had been pulled off by some powerful mechanical puller, and there was no threads left on any of them.
I have been quoted a price for the job since and couldn’t believe how much it was going to cost.
I have since tried to source the parts and do the job myself at a third of the cost, but I thought “hang on a minute, surely we are covered by some sort of warranty as the van is just over a year old?”
The service handbook says we are covered by a 3 year warranty.
Also when we first purchased the van the lid on the front where the gas bottle etc. Is stored had been damaged (I think they said it was during the moving of it whilst on the forecourt) it had been filled but it had been done in a haphazard way.
We were told that someone would come to us and repair it professionally at an arranged date and time.
Someone came out to do the repair but it was raining and another date and time was arranged, we have never seen him again!
So I thought it was about time I listed all the things wrong with the caravan and asked the question as to what can be done about it?
As the wheel nuts on the van have never had to be tightened by myself I know they could never have been loose so after consulting various engineers etc. I have been told they could have been over tightened from the start.
So there are the issues of the exterior light, the interior light fittings, the bed, the wheel falling off resulting in the damage to the wheel arch spat and rear sill and the lid which covers the front storage area that all require addressing.
I have attached photos relating to all of the above except the damage to the front lid that was never repaired.
After paying £11,500 for a new caravan I find all the above mentioned problems totally unacceptable and I would like you to get back to me as soon as possible with the next steps on what we/you have to do about it.
Apart from this the caravan has been great, we have had some great times in it and are very happy with it.
The caravan was purchased in the name of my partner which is Amanda and the Vin number is Any further information can be provided on request.

Thankyou for your time and hope to hear from you soon,

Mark

You will note the SOGAs, that in the first 6 months, the seller is responsible, but after this time, the onus is on the user, purchaser.

I am afraid, that although I do not have a caravan, my car log book clearly states service intervals in Miles and Calendar Months, and Says, whichever comes first. I am afraid you did not service the caravan, this broke the terms and conditions of the warranty and that, I am afraid is final.

Besides, TYRES, do deflate over time, and create falt spots. This is caused by gravity, a naturally occuring event that keeps most people on this planet. I suggest next time you fly down the road with your caravan, you think not only of your own safety, and that of your passengers, but of other road users that may be affected by debris coming off your property. If you are not in a position to servcie the caravan yourself, then pay someone who is.

I am sorry, I did not offer absolution in this case.

DCFC79

Well said freddie, can always reply on your opinion

gordikin

Freddie...I do miss your old sig.! OP, do you expect any seller of anything you buy to spell out their T&C's or are you able to read for yourself? Warranties on vehicles are always subject to T&C's...it's not the sellers fault you chose not to read them. Indeed you appear not to have used the 'van much, so should have had an abundance of time to read the T&C's at your leisure.

Freddie_Snowbits

gordikin wrote: »

Freddie...I do miss your old sig.!

Sorted!:beer::beer::beer::beer:

bap98189

Your Emails are really not clear. I find it hard to follow the complaints, but as far as I can understand it, there are three problems here. 1) the gas cylinder cover was damaged. 2) the wheel fell off causing a load of extra damage. 3) You are not happy with some interior fixings.

1) They actually sent someone out to repair the gas bottle cover. He couldn't do the job due to poor weather. You say another date was arranged; he says it wasn't but he gave you his phone number but never heard from you again. Either way, why did you not ring him when he didn't turn up on the re-arranged date? Failing that, why did you not ring the caravan company? Presumably their offer to have him complete the job still stands, so I don't see what your complaint is here? Arrange for it to be done and the problem is solved.

2) I think they are right, that is an issue for the insurance company. If the insurance company want to try and blame poor manufacture and reclaim the cost from the manufacturer, that's their problem. Five wheel nuts don't do a number of journeys and then all fail at once. Far more likely is they worked loose and then the wheel fell off. You claim you tested all of the nuts with a torque wrench before every journey - I find that hard to believe. But again you have allowed a long period of time to elapse without contacting wither the manufacturer or your insurer. Why?

3) These seem to be very minor problems by comparison. The sort of thing that would be fixed at a service. I think you would have a good case for arguing that not having it serviced should not invalidating the warranty in respect of cosmetic problems, but this seems to me to be a minor worry compared to the others.

gordikin

OP, what you want to hear:-You are entirely correct and the seller should refund your money, give you a new caravan FOC and compensate you financially with an amount equal to the purchase price.

gordikin

Freddie_Snowbits wrote: »

Sorted!:beer::beer::beer::beer:

Freddie, you are a charmer...and a leg end!

Googlewhacker

Mark1971 wrote: »

Who thinks that on the first purchase of anything under a 3 year warranty that they have to sit there and read the terms and conditions of said warranty to keep it valid?
Not me!!
Maybe I am stupid?
I have got rid of all email adresses in the post Thanks.
Hope someone can be a bit more helpful regarding my situation to be honest though.
Personally I think it stinks.
Thank you

I agree not many people but it doesn't makes the terms of the warranty any less valid!