Private Parking Companies - The Landowner's Tale (or ongoing saga)

Coblcris

Consideration has passed between them. They are bound together.

Slik

Update - I returned home last night to find a fresh envelope stuck to the vehicle along with 2 (possibly 3) further empty envelopes which clearly represents a malicious act so I promptly wrote to the police stating what had/has happened and asking for them to investigate. I received a response back this morning saying that after consultation with the Sergeant they believe this is a Civil matter and they cannot be of any assistance.

I cc'd my MSP into the original communication and further prompted him for a reply to my last letter.

I have written back to the police employee outlining the definition of vandalism (which applies) and further outlining the definition of Malicious Mischief (which also applies and doesn't require property to be damaged), I have insisted that this is a criminal matter and that if they continue to believe this to be Civil I shall require the contact details of a more senior person to liaise with or someone my MP/MSP can contact on my behalf.

After this I have the option of confrontation (where I can instruct the employee of the PPC to leave my property or call the police again to have them charged with trespass, which is a joke as they'll not get there in time, if at all and I can't realistically arrest the employee myself) or Civil action which as I've already stated is not a route I would like to endure but one I may have to.

If the police continue to show no interest I will (have no option but to) take it further and possibly raise a complaint against them once I have sound confirmation that it is a criminal matter and they are duty bound to investigate.

I shall also be raising an invoice against someone - I'm not sure who yet as the Factor will try to charge the estate for legal costs but ultimately have responsibility for the presence of the PPC but the PPC are the offending party and have incurred the costs. I think the sum will come to more than £185, I think it may be more along the lines of

30 mins for each day a 'penalty invoice' was issued ~ 60 days (my time is not cheap)
A figure for my time to deal with the situation ~ 20 hours (seriously, it's been at least this much time)
Compensation for stress caused etc, which has been more than significant
A notional amount to cover stationary and postage costs
Cleaning materials including decorators wipes (white spirit impregnated) and Autoglym Fast Glass + paper towels
A wiper blade
A charge for each day the company has gained access (or could have gained access) to my property to conduct business without permission ~ 3 months

The latter is an interesting charge as the potential income from the 'penalty invoices' they could have issued is large and I don't want to associate his charge with those invoices in any way as I do not accept any liability for their illegal actions. This sum could realistically be set at about £50 per day of operation without itself becoming a 'penalty'.

I'll keep you updated but undoubtedly the reaction from the Police, though expected has disheartened me somewhat, as has the prospect of returning to remove 3 or 4 envelopes from my windscreen so I can use the car this evening.

Fergie76

Slik wrote: »

Update - I returned home last night to find a fresh envelope stuck to the vehicle along with 2 (possibly 3) further empty envelopes which clearly represents a malicious act so I promptly wrote to the police stating what had/has happened and asking for them to investigate. I received a response back this morning saying that after consultation with the Sergeant they believe this is a Civil matter and they cannot be of any assistance.

I cc'd my MSP into the original communication and further prompted him for a reply to my last letter.

I have written back to the police employee outlining the definition of vandalism (which applies) and further outlining the definition of Malicious Mischief (which also applies and doesn't require property to be damaged), I have insisted that this is a criminal matter and that if they continue to believe this to be Civil I shall require the contact details of a more senior person to liaise with or someone my MP/MSP can contact on my behalf.

After this I have the option of confrontation (where I can instruct the employee of the PPC to leave my property or call the police again to have them charged with trespass, which is a joke as they'll not get there in time, if at all and I can't realistically arrest the employee myself) or Civil action which as I've already stated is not a route I would like to endure but one I may have to.

If the police continue to show no interest I will (have no option but to) take it further and possibly raise a complaint against them once I have sound confirmation that it is a criminal matter and they are duty bound to investigate.

I shall also be raising an invoice against someone - I'm not sure who yet as the Factor will try to charge the estate for legal costs but ultimately have responsibility for the presence of the PPC but the PPC are the offending party and have incurred the costs. I think the sum will come to more than £185, I think it may be more along the lines of

30 mins for each day a 'penalty invoice' was issued ~ 60 days (my time is not cheap)
A figure for my time to deal with the situation ~ 20 hours (seriously, it's been at least this much time)
Compensation for stress caused etc, which has been more than significant
A notional amount to cover stationary and postage costs
Cleaning materials including decorators wipes (white spirit impregnated) and Autoglym Fast Glass + paper towels
A wiper blade
A charge for each day the company has gained access (or could have gained access) to my property to conduct business without permission ~ 3 months

The latter is an interesting charge as the potential income from the 'penalty invoices' they could have issued is large and I don't want to associate his charge with those invoices in any way as I do not accept any liability for their illegal actions. This sum could realistically be set at about £50 per day of operation without itself becoming a 'penalty'.

I'll keep you updated but undoubtedly the reaction from the Police, though expected has disheartened me somewhat, as has the prospect of returning to remove 3 or 4 envelopes from my windscreen so I can use the car this evening.

Scotland does not have tresspassing laws.

Slik

Fergie76 wrote: »

Scotland does not have tresspassing laws.

Sorry you're misinformed, there is a law of trespass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass_(Scotland)_Act_1865

http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dtl/index.cfm?event=base:article&node=A76076BD34460

specifically the section on Scotland in the last link and more specifically "You can ask the individual to stop trespassing which will prevent any acceptance or consent to the trespass and preserve your rights to act against it."

Which is the scenario I was proposing to invoke, the only issue being the police won't be interested.

Fergie76

Slik wrote: »

Sorry you're misinformed, there is a law of trespass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass_(Scotland)_Act_1865

http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dtl/index.cfm?event=base:article&node=A76076BD34460

specifically the section on Scotland in the last link and more specifically "You can ask the individual to stop trespassing which will prevent any acceptance or consent to the trespass and preserve your rights to act against it."

Which is the scenario I was proposing to invoke, the only issue being the police won't be interested.

http://www.gm0axy.ic24.net/freedom.htm

There is a legally defined Freedom to Roam in Scotland, and of course there is no Law of Trespass in Scotland

In the past I have worked at Faslane Naval Base, and the only way they get rounds this law is by the Official Secrets Act.

Although you can get them on the grounds of damage to your car.

AlexisV

If you want recompense, you will not get it out of the PPC who probably have umpteen CCJs and no assets as it is.

Think carefully about what you are invoicing for. They have to be figures of tangible and provable loss.

anewman

AlexisV wrote: »

If you want recompense, you will not get it out of the PPC who probably have umpteen CCJs and no assets as it is.

Think carefully about what you are invoicing for. They have to be figures of tangible and provable loss.

I would like to echo these sentiments. While the time needed to remove and clean poses a considerable hassle, I do not think you can willy nilly request money for your time. OTOH if this has consequently led to loss of earnings at work, then I would be looking to claim for those losses. Things such as contacting the PPC/agent by phone and mail represent costs and these costs should be requested at a figure which reflects the cost to you rather than a random figure you would like (check phone bill and cost of stamps/envelopes/paper etc). If you come across as being reasonable in court, then I feel the judge is more likely to decide in your favour and may even award further costs to you for attending court.

Slik

Fergie76 wrote: »

In the past I have worked at Faslane Naval Base, and the only way they get rounds this law is by the Official Secrets Act.

Although you can get them on the grounds of damage to your car.

From your link

"The landowner has one ace up his sleeve as under Scottish Law, if someone is on someone else’s land and is asked to leave, he must do so at once. If the person or persons do not comply with such a request at once, the landowner has the right under Scottish Law to ‘use any such force as is reasonably required to remove the offender from the land’."

It is this to which I was referring.

Slik

anewman wrote: »

I would like to echo these sentiments. While the time needed to remove and clean poses a considerable hassle, I do not think you can willy nilly request money for your time. OTOH if this has consequently led to loss of earnings at work, then I would be looking to claim for those losses. Things such as contacting the PPC/agent by phone and mail represent costs and these costs should be requested at a figure which reflects the cost to you rather than a random figure you would like (check phone bill and cost of stamps/envelopes/paper etc). If you come across as being reasonable in court, then I feel the judge is more likely to decide in your favour and may even award further costs to you for attending court.

Thanks for the advice - it looks like this is ultimately a non-starter as I've more effective routes to consider if I am headed to court.

Unfortunately the Police still refuse to admit that there is any criminal act involved in maliciously soiling my vehicle with glue and will not get involved.

I shall continue to explore other avenues as I feel they are backing me into a position where I am being encouraged to take the law into my own hands which is totally against my principles. I may lodge a complaint against them as I do believe they have a responsibility to act and are ignoring this hoping I will give up.

Fergie76

Slik wrote: »

From your link

"The landowner has one ace up his sleeve as under Scottish Law, if someone is on someone else’s land and is asked to leave, he must do so at once. If the person or persons do not comply with such a request at once, the landowner has the right under Scottish Law to ‘use any such force as is reasonably required to remove the offender from the land’."

It is this to which I was referring.

Fair enough, but my point was that there is no trespassing laws in Scotland, which there isn't, as there is the 'Right To Roam'; so therefore you cannot have someone done for trespassing as you alluded to in your earlier post. I wasn't disputing that you can't ask someone to leave your land.