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Private Parking Companies - The Landowner's Tale (or ongoing saga)
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Slik
Posts: 15 Forumite
Firstly to clarify - I AM a victim of the PPC scam but my perspective is somewhat different to most and I have been actively involved in this stressful situation for many months.
Secondly - I will not give up, the more I am bullied the more determined I shall get.
The background -
I own a modern flat, on an estate in Edinburgh. Like most people who own such properties I am contractually bound to a Property factor who are paid a management fee to organise the maintenance and upkeep of the communal areas and allocate liability for costs. Like many other people in the same situation my Factor are a shower of cowboys, well known to the legal profession and without any regulatory body to keep them in check and prevent them taking advantage of their position of trust.
Along with my flat I own an equal share of all communal areas out-with the individual buildings, this includes the parking areas. I pay for the upkeep and maintenance of these areas and expect to be entitled to fair usage of these areas - by that I mean considerate parking of vehicles I own/use and the ability of visitors to park their vehicles. I maintain a single vehicle at my flat, it's parked in a secure underground area which is gated and cannot be accessed by the public. I occasionally (a few days a year) maintain a second vehicle on site (but there is never less than 20% free space in the parking area so it's certainly not unfair usage) and I very occasionally host visitors for coffee, dinner and perhaps once a year, a friend who stays on the couch for an evening or two.
The Story so far -
My property factor issued a notice instructing 'residents' that a parking scheme was to be introduced and that we had to attend at a specified time to sign the appropriate documentation and receive a single parking permit per property. Additional permits were not to be made available to properties and visitor passes had to be applied for in advance and were valid for 3 days. I have a verbal contract in place with the developer confirming that such usage restrictions would never figure at this development and on this basis I proceeded with the sale (seriously, I am a car person - they are a large, large part of my life, and a safe stress free parking environment was a pre-requisite for my purchase)
I formally notified them that I did not consent to the introduction of this scheme and the proposed PPC (Central Ticketing Ltd.). I was aware of the illegal actions of the proposed PPC and would not acknowledge the scheme as I would not be implicated in extortion etc or any liable to any actions in contravention of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 etc etc.
At this point I was simply ignored and bullied by the Factor who insist they are able to make this decision on my behalf, apparently they believe they have power of attorney over my legal affairs?
I tried to engage a lawyer but the costs involved in pursuing this are ludicrous and far beyond the means of any normal or mildly wealthy professional.
I have since engaged and been working with both my MSP and MP who have been very good in representing my case but even they have found it difficult to deal with the two parties involved who appear to simply treat any challenge with contempt and feel they are safely out of the reach of most people's financial means (the factor responded with a laughably incorrect legal quote of an act which doesn't exist and the PPC did not even have the courtesy to respond). Additionally my MSP is a strong supporter of a bill which is going through the Scottish Parliament which seeks to impose some regulation on Property Factors in Scotland, initially this looks like a poor system of self-regulation and a clearly defined process for mediating and resolving complaints, but this is infinitely more than we currently have and is desperately required to control this largely cowboy industry.
The scheme was introduced in May this year and since this date I have suffered the indignity of receiving an average of 5 'penalty invoices' each week. Whereas this in itself doesn't bother me, what does bother me is the fact that these 'penalty invoices' are being affixed to my windscreen with adhesive envelopes. The adhesive used is virtually impossible to remove by conventional means and represents a significant inconvenience and the potential for long term accumulation of damage to my vehicle is becoming apparent as minor scratches to the paintwork are building in frequency and my wiper blade is being lifted each time and presumably allowed to slap against the windscreen when returned. I have previously contacted the police about this matter who informed me that they could not do anything about it at the time (but this was back when they were placing non-adhesive packets under my wiper), I shall be re-contacting them to report the 'vandalism' (I have notified the employee of Central Ticketing Ltd. that they are damaging my vehicle and they continuation do do so subsequent to that notice would represent malicious intent to damage, and I have photographic evidence of this and the subsequent 4 'invoice' response) to seek a crime number so that I might pursue an insurance claim for the repair of the damage when it is convenient for me to do so.
Aware that the PPC would make an application to the DVLA I notified the DVLA that a false declaration would be made, supplied my reasoning behind my statement and told them that I absolutely did not consent to my details being released. They then wrote back telling me that each case would be dealt with on an individual basis and that they would seek evidence the PPC had the relevant permissions to operate on the land before releasing the details - note once more that I am a landowner and had clearly stated that I was such and did not consent to them operating on my property.
I have subsequently received many notices from Roxburghe Ltd. demanding payment of some ridiculous sum of money for each 'penalty invoice' (I only opened the first couple, I just file them based on the return address) which supposedly represents MY loss due to MY use of my own land to park MY vehicle. As there is no shortage of parking on this estate I can't see that any illegitimate use of this land has had any impact on my quality of life and thus at best a notional fee of a few pence might apply for wear and tear to concrete or use of electricity on site (a fee which I might add I already pay to the Factor due my liability as a landowner).
After receiving my first notice from Roxburghe Ltd. in relation to the illegal activities of the PPC on my property I duly completed the complaint form on the website of the Information Commissioner informing them of the dishonest application for my details and instructing them that I wished this to be investigated and charges brought as appropriate. I received a very poor response from an employee of this office trying to fobb me off with a response suggesting we'll supply your details to whomever we see fit and the DVLA have done nothing wrong. Needless to say I have written back to them without the restrictions imposed by their structured complaint form stating my case clearly, supplying evidence and making it clear that if the situation which has lead to my civil rights being infringed (violation of the 1997 harassment act and Human Rights Act 1998 articles 1 and 6) is not resolved to my satisfaction I would be making representation to the Minister for Transport either directly or via my own MP (or both) with a view to ensuring that this situation does not occur in future.
The situation as it stands -
I am awaiting a response from the office of the Information Commissioner - but I'm not holding my breath so I am drafting my letter to the MP/Minister in my head
I am awaiting a response from my MSP who has received and considered my analysis of the response he received from the Factor (which I would find highly amusing if it didn't profoundly affect my quality of life here - though I accept this is a small inconvenience compared to the predicament of some throughout the world)
I continue to receive 'penalty invoices' - which display no company number or VAT registration number (as a company director I would be hammered if I neglected these details on my invoices and communications)
These 'penalty invoices' continue to be glued to my windscreen - additionally I am cleaning the adhesive with white spirit which is leaving an oily residue - the 'employee' of Central Ticketing Ltd. are purposefully ensuring the envelope is affixed to a clean area of windscreen thus maximising inconvenience and damage (last week I found the envelope glued over my scuttle panel right down under the wiped and bonnet line, and I just want to be clear this vehicle is effectively parked indoors and the residue does not prevent the glue bonding, it simply makes it easier to remove). Due to the adhesive quality of these invoices (I can't get them off my own fingers) and my hatred of littering I am re-adhering these to the notices Central Ticketing Ltd. have displayed which on occasion due to the poor fixing of these notices and the damage they are doing to the fabric of my property are occasionally falling away from their fixing point.
In conclusion -
Please do not make life easy for these PPC, they are not just victimising members of the public but are bullying landowners through Property Factors and other such organisations and I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that there has been no advantage to the Property Factors and other such organisations gained by representing them against their own clients/customers - the owners of the properties they seek to maintain.
I would be very interested in learning about anything which could strengthen my case or provide further evident which I could utilise in my struggle against either the Property Factor or the PPC involved in this case. I have already featured in a minor article in the national press and would be very interested in further courting the media to increase public awareness to this issue.
As far as I can see there are only a few ways we can hope to beat this scam -
1) Ensure widespread public awareness of this issue so that nobody pays these 'penalty invoices' and nobody suffers the stress such a confrontation/accusation inevitably inflicts
2) Continue to represent our interests to our MPs, MSPs or whoever represents you in these matters - Clamping is being outlawed in England (as it has been in Scotland for many years - represents theft here) and these PPC are simply using a modified and more placid version of the same extortion, but still in violation of civil law and thus something which should be clarified as illegal
3) Continue to raise complaints to the DVLA so that they cannot distribute your personal information in response to a dishonest application
I hope to be rid of this particular cancer which permeates our society very soon, though I suspect I have a long fight ahead of me before I can once more return to my home after work without the deep unsettled feeling wondering what awaits me.
Many thanks in advance for any constructive input or advice which allows me to further my position.
Secondly - I will not give up, the more I am bullied the more determined I shall get.
The background -
I own a modern flat, on an estate in Edinburgh. Like most people who own such properties I am contractually bound to a Property factor who are paid a management fee to organise the maintenance and upkeep of the communal areas and allocate liability for costs. Like many other people in the same situation my Factor are a shower of cowboys, well known to the legal profession and without any regulatory body to keep them in check and prevent them taking advantage of their position of trust.
Along with my flat I own an equal share of all communal areas out-with the individual buildings, this includes the parking areas. I pay for the upkeep and maintenance of these areas and expect to be entitled to fair usage of these areas - by that I mean considerate parking of vehicles I own/use and the ability of visitors to park their vehicles. I maintain a single vehicle at my flat, it's parked in a secure underground area which is gated and cannot be accessed by the public. I occasionally (a few days a year) maintain a second vehicle on site (but there is never less than 20% free space in the parking area so it's certainly not unfair usage) and I very occasionally host visitors for coffee, dinner and perhaps once a year, a friend who stays on the couch for an evening or two.
The Story so far -
My property factor issued a notice instructing 'residents' that a parking scheme was to be introduced and that we had to attend at a specified time to sign the appropriate documentation and receive a single parking permit per property. Additional permits were not to be made available to properties and visitor passes had to be applied for in advance and were valid for 3 days. I have a verbal contract in place with the developer confirming that such usage restrictions would never figure at this development and on this basis I proceeded with the sale (seriously, I am a car person - they are a large, large part of my life, and a safe stress free parking environment was a pre-requisite for my purchase)
I formally notified them that I did not consent to the introduction of this scheme and the proposed PPC (Central Ticketing Ltd.). I was aware of the illegal actions of the proposed PPC and would not acknowledge the scheme as I would not be implicated in extortion etc or any liable to any actions in contravention of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 etc etc.
At this point I was simply ignored and bullied by the Factor who insist they are able to make this decision on my behalf, apparently they believe they have power of attorney over my legal affairs?
I tried to engage a lawyer but the costs involved in pursuing this are ludicrous and far beyond the means of any normal or mildly wealthy professional.
I have since engaged and been working with both my MSP and MP who have been very good in representing my case but even they have found it difficult to deal with the two parties involved who appear to simply treat any challenge with contempt and feel they are safely out of the reach of most people's financial means (the factor responded with a laughably incorrect legal quote of an act which doesn't exist and the PPC did not even have the courtesy to respond). Additionally my MSP is a strong supporter of a bill which is going through the Scottish Parliament which seeks to impose some regulation on Property Factors in Scotland, initially this looks like a poor system of self-regulation and a clearly defined process for mediating and resolving complaints, but this is infinitely more than we currently have and is desperately required to control this largely cowboy industry.
The scheme was introduced in May this year and since this date I have suffered the indignity of receiving an average of 5 'penalty invoices' each week. Whereas this in itself doesn't bother me, what does bother me is the fact that these 'penalty invoices' are being affixed to my windscreen with adhesive envelopes. The adhesive used is virtually impossible to remove by conventional means and represents a significant inconvenience and the potential for long term accumulation of damage to my vehicle is becoming apparent as minor scratches to the paintwork are building in frequency and my wiper blade is being lifted each time and presumably allowed to slap against the windscreen when returned. I have previously contacted the police about this matter who informed me that they could not do anything about it at the time (but this was back when they were placing non-adhesive packets under my wiper), I shall be re-contacting them to report the 'vandalism' (I have notified the employee of Central Ticketing Ltd. that they are damaging my vehicle and they continuation do do so subsequent to that notice would represent malicious intent to damage, and I have photographic evidence of this and the subsequent 4 'invoice' response) to seek a crime number so that I might pursue an insurance claim for the repair of the damage when it is convenient for me to do so.
Aware that the PPC would make an application to the DVLA I notified the DVLA that a false declaration would be made, supplied my reasoning behind my statement and told them that I absolutely did not consent to my details being released. They then wrote back telling me that each case would be dealt with on an individual basis and that they would seek evidence the PPC had the relevant permissions to operate on the land before releasing the details - note once more that I am a landowner and had clearly stated that I was such and did not consent to them operating on my property.
I have subsequently received many notices from Roxburghe Ltd. demanding payment of some ridiculous sum of money for each 'penalty invoice' (I only opened the first couple, I just file them based on the return address) which supposedly represents MY loss due to MY use of my own land to park MY vehicle. As there is no shortage of parking on this estate I can't see that any illegitimate use of this land has had any impact on my quality of life and thus at best a notional fee of a few pence might apply for wear and tear to concrete or use of electricity on site (a fee which I might add I already pay to the Factor due my liability as a landowner).
After receiving my first notice from Roxburghe Ltd. in relation to the illegal activities of the PPC on my property I duly completed the complaint form on the website of the Information Commissioner informing them of the dishonest application for my details and instructing them that I wished this to be investigated and charges brought as appropriate. I received a very poor response from an employee of this office trying to fobb me off with a response suggesting we'll supply your details to whomever we see fit and the DVLA have done nothing wrong. Needless to say I have written back to them without the restrictions imposed by their structured complaint form stating my case clearly, supplying evidence and making it clear that if the situation which has lead to my civil rights being infringed (violation of the 1997 harassment act and Human Rights Act 1998 articles 1 and 6) is not resolved to my satisfaction I would be making representation to the Minister for Transport either directly or via my own MP (or both) with a view to ensuring that this situation does not occur in future.
The situation as it stands -
I am awaiting a response from the office of the Information Commissioner - but I'm not holding my breath so I am drafting my letter to the MP/Minister in my head
I am awaiting a response from my MSP who has received and considered my analysis of the response he received from the Factor (which I would find highly amusing if it didn't profoundly affect my quality of life here - though I accept this is a small inconvenience compared to the predicament of some throughout the world)
I continue to receive 'penalty invoices' - which display no company number or VAT registration number (as a company director I would be hammered if I neglected these details on my invoices and communications)
These 'penalty invoices' continue to be glued to my windscreen - additionally I am cleaning the adhesive with white spirit which is leaving an oily residue - the 'employee' of Central Ticketing Ltd. are purposefully ensuring the envelope is affixed to a clean area of windscreen thus maximising inconvenience and damage (last week I found the envelope glued over my scuttle panel right down under the wiped and bonnet line, and I just want to be clear this vehicle is effectively parked indoors and the residue does not prevent the glue bonding, it simply makes it easier to remove). Due to the adhesive quality of these invoices (I can't get them off my own fingers) and my hatred of littering I am re-adhering these to the notices Central Ticketing Ltd. have displayed which on occasion due to the poor fixing of these notices and the damage they are doing to the fabric of my property are occasionally falling away from their fixing point.
In conclusion -
Please do not make life easy for these PPC, they are not just victimising members of the public but are bullying landowners through Property Factors and other such organisations and I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that there has been no advantage to the Property Factors and other such organisations gained by representing them against their own clients/customers - the owners of the properties they seek to maintain.
I would be very interested in learning about anything which could strengthen my case or provide further evident which I could utilise in my struggle against either the Property Factor or the PPC involved in this case. I have already featured in a minor article in the national press and would be very interested in further courting the media to increase public awareness to this issue.
As far as I can see there are only a few ways we can hope to beat this scam -
1) Ensure widespread public awareness of this issue so that nobody pays these 'penalty invoices' and nobody suffers the stress such a confrontation/accusation inevitably inflicts
2) Continue to represent our interests to our MPs, MSPs or whoever represents you in these matters - Clamping is being outlawed in England (as it has been in Scotland for many years - represents theft here) and these PPC are simply using a modified and more placid version of the same extortion, but still in violation of civil law and thus something which should be clarified as illegal
3) Continue to raise complaints to the DVLA so that they cannot distribute your personal information in response to a dishonest application
I hope to be rid of this particular cancer which permeates our society very soon, though I suspect I have a long fight ahead of me before I can once more return to my home after work without the deep unsettled feeling wondering what awaits me.
Many thanks in advance for any constructive input or advice which allows me to further my position.
0
Comments
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They have clearly made a false representation to the DVLA in that they claim they are the landowner, when in fact you are. I seem to remember somewhere saying the DVLA would stop giving information to people who abuse the service. I wonder how such abuse can be reported to the DVLA or if they simply continue on regardless while enjoying the money it brings in, regardless of the rights or wrongs.
I presume there is no way for you to hang around/use a CCTV camera and give the people who stick the notices to your car some serious hassle/stick something nastily sticky to their windscreen. (Problem is then no doubt the police act against you, when under similar repeated circumstances they did not act against them).
If you know a good auto electrician, you could get them to wire up the washer jets to work by remote control, you could put something into this like urine (or probably better to leave it with the standard screenwash actually, lol) and wait watching over your car till they come and give them a good dosing
The most sensible and best route is probably to invoice them a reasonable amount for damage to the car threatening court action to recover the costs and then take them to court.0 -
Couldn't this be classed as harassment by Central Ticketing Ltd ? If so and you take them to court couldn't an injunction be served on them and their employees placing tickets on the vehicle
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970040_en_1Excel Parking, MET Parking, Combined Parking Solutions, VP Parking Solutions, ANPR PC Ltd, & Roxburghe Debt Collectors. What do they all have in common?
They are all or have been suspended from accessing the DVLA database for gross misconduct!
Do you really need to ask what kind of people run parking companies?0 -
This is very similar to another case featured on here a few weeks ago. In that case the OP's son (who lives in Edinburgh) has also suffered repeated parking tickets stuck to his windscreen. In his case the car is parked in his own bay in an underground car-park but they won't leave him alone.
Edit - I have found the threadWhat part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?0 -
Can you not get a majority of the other flat owners to consent to sacking this lot and hire Factors that you, as a group will be happy with?0
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trisontana wrote: »This is very similar to another case featured on here a few weeks ago. In that case the OP's son (who lives in Edinburgh) has also suffered repeated parking tickets stuck to his windscreen. In his case the car is parked in his own bay in an underground car-park but they won't leave him alone.
Edit - I have found the thread
LOL, aka Mum!
I guess this thread is thus an update on matters - I hadn't realised she'd been posting on forums.0 -
The most sensible and best route is probably to invoice them a reasonable amount for damage to the car threatening court action to recover the costs and then take them to court.
Yeah, this is one option open to me but they won't respond and I will have to form a case to take to the small claims court to recover the debt.
I do actually have cctv footage as I'm parking the car beside the cctv cameras due to the car I previously kept in Edin being broken into in the same area.0 -
Couldn't this be classed as harassment by Central Ticketing Ltd ? If so and you take them to court couldn't an injunction be served on them and their employees placing tickets on the vehicle
Yes it is deffinitely harassment and my MSP has represented my case to the PPC in question. There is no doubt that both the Factor and PPC are aware that my consent has not been granted and that they both know the identity of my vehicle (I explicitly supplied my registration number giving them the opportunity to overlook my vehicle)
Incidentally the car park 'pass' they expect me to display in order to continue using my property unharassed displays both my name and address - brilliant if you want to clone a vehicle or find some house keys etc after breaking in to the vehicle.
If anyone has further information on gaining an injunction (in Scotland) or anything similar I'd be keen to hear from you. Especially if you have an indication of costs involved etc.0 -
Can you not get a majority of the other flat owners to consent to sacking this lot and hire Factors that you, as a group will be happy with?
Unfortunately there are a few legal considerations here (and this is from memory) -
2/3 of proprietors need to vote in favour of the dissolution of the contract - this was established in law back in 2003/4 in Scotland
The deeds appear to try to superceed this and state that we need the Residents Association to be formed and vote accordingly with 2/3 of members present at the meeting voting in favour (or poss 2/3 overall again, I forget) and that up to 3 years after the sale of the last property on the development we need the developers permission to dissolve the contract.
Needless to say the Factor are aware that they are vulnerable once a Residents Association is officially convened (Proprietors are members by default) and have thus sought to actively discourage the formation of the Residents Association with the formation of a token gesture 'Residents Steering Group' while claiming that because there was little interest in a Residents Association 2 years ago they will not coordinate the inaugural AGM for the Residents Association and will continue to try to confuse residents (note I expect a significant proportion of people living here are tennants and not Proprietors and thus not overly bothered by the longer term issues) on the estate with with the powerless 'Steering Group'.0 -
Just thinking a bit more, which is probably dangerous, anyway:
Any money the Factors make from this either by an up front payment or part of each ticket issued should they not then pass this on to residents? It's their land, therefore their money?Unfortunately there are a few legal considerations here (and this is from memory) -
2/3 of proprietors need to vote in favour of the dissolution of the contract - this was established in law back in 2003/4 in Scotland
The deeds appear to try to superceed this and state that we need the Residents Association to be formed and vote accordingly with 2/3 of members present at the meeting voting in favour (or poss 2/3 overall again, I forget) and that up to 3 years after the sale of the last property on the development we need the developers permission to dissolve the contract.
Needless to say the Factor are aware that they are vulnerable once a Residents Association is officially convened (Proprietors are members by default) and have thus sought to actively discourage the formation of the Residents Association with the formation of a token gesture 'Residents Steering Group' while claiming that because there was little interest in a Residents Association 2 years ago they will not coordinate the inaugural AGM for the Residents Association and will continue to try to confuse residents (note I expect a significant proportion of people living here are tennants and not Proprietors and thus not overly bothered by the longer term issues) on the estate with with the powerless 'Steering Group'.
I'm assuming you're not the only person with these problems, seeing as they won't hold a residents meeting, can you not organise your own?0 -
LOL, aka Mum!
I guess this thread is thus an update on matters - I hadn't realised she'd been posting on forums.
I thought it might have been because of the similarities, can't believe its still going on after this many months! Its harassment in my opinion and you should ask a court to put an injunction on them.Excel Parking, MET Parking, Combined Parking Solutions, VP Parking Solutions, ANPR PC Ltd, & Roxburghe Debt Collectors. What do they all have in common?
They are all or have been suspended from accessing the DVLA database for gross misconduct!
Do you really need to ask what kind of people run parking companies?0
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