Private Parking Companies - The Landowner's Tale (or ongoing saga)

Spartacus_Mills

Slik wrote: »

The scheme was introduced in May this year and since this date I have suffered the indignity of receiving an average of 5 'penalty invoices' each week. Whereas this in itself doesn't bother me, what does bother me is the fact that these 'penalty invoices' are being affixed to my windscreen with adhesive envelopes. The adhesive used is virtually impossible to remove by conventional means and represents a significant inconvenience and the potential for long term accumulation of damage to my vehicle is becoming apparent as minor scratches to the paintwork are building in frequency and my wiper blade is being lifted each time and presumably allowed to slap against the windscreen when returned. I have previously contacted the police about this matter who informed me that they could not do anything about it at the time (but this was back when they were placing non-adhesive packets under my wiper), I shall be re-contacting them to report the 'vandalism' (I have notified the employee of Central Ticketing Ltd. that they are damaging my vehicle and they continuation do do so subsequent to that notice would represent malicious intent to damage, and I have photographic evidence of this and the subsequent 4 'invoice' response) to seek a crime number so that I might pursue an insurance claim for the repair of the damage when it is convenient for me to do so.

Don't be fobbed off by the scum police. This is clearly criminal damage. The scum police are not going to be interested but push it with them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4365743.stm

anewman

Fergie76 wrote: »

Can you not get a majority of the other flat owners to consent to sacking this lot and hire Factors that you, as a group will be happy with?

Problem with that idea is the rest will probably already have agreed and see someone who didn't agree as a trouble maker who deserves the tickets - simply because they're not getting tickets themselves.

ashleypride

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Don't be fobbed off by the scum police. This is clearly criminal damage. The scum police are not going to be interested but push it with them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4365743.stm

I agree, keep badgering the Police until they take it seriously.

Slik

Fergie76 wrote: »

Just thinking a bit more, which is probably dangerous, anyway:

Any money the Factors make from this either by an up front payment or part of each ticket issued should they not then pass this on to residents? It's their land, therefore their money?



I'm assuming you're not the only person with these problems, seeing as they won't hold a residents meeting, can you not organise your own?

I can't prove that the Factor have benefited from this situation, they simply cite that the reasoning for selecting this PPC (after 2 1/2 years without any need for any parking control) was the no-charge to landowners approach. However I would question this as the Factor have acted in a very forceful manner which I believe infringes my legal rights and is not indicative of a legitimate and considered action.

No I'm not the only one who's against this scheme - this is borne out by the removal of some of the 'notices' CT have attached to various areas of the property. It may simply have been local kids (though it's been done with finesse and not through vandalism) and it hasn't been me or any associate of mine so I must presume it's other residents who are objecting. The factor held a straw pole after my initial declaration of opposition to try to justify the scheme (a very very unreliable pole of occupiers) which revealed that 20% of 'residents' were opposed to it. No further effort was made to discuss the matter with Proprietors.

Slik

anewman wrote: »

Problem with that idea is the rest will probably already have agreed and see someone who didn't agree as a trouble maker who deserves the tickets - simply because they're not getting tickets themselves.

Yeah this is a minefield of an area. As you'll all no doubt agree if it's not affecting you, you are unlikely to want to get involved, everyone likes a quiet life (myself included) and unfortunately that's the underlying principle through which PPC earn their money - people get bullied into letting them operate and get bullied into being victims of their scam because they want to have an easy life.

The sad fact is that many of the Proprietors here are buy-to-let landlords who just pay their money to the factor and take no further interest.

The main problem is simply getting people interested and overcoming the Factor. I have previously made efforts to publicise the lack of a Residents Association (and that without one we had no influence over the actions/decisions of the Factor) and the facts associated with PPC (taken from a reputable internet source) but my efforts were actively stifled and I received poorly worded threats from an agent of the Factor.

Slik

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Don't be fobbed off by the scum police. This is clearly criminal damage. The scum police are not going to be interested but push it with them.

Spartacus/Ashley

I have a lot of time for the police and respect the tough job they do in the face of excessive paperwork, red tape and an ever increasingly disorderly society. Unfortunately, without making this political they are forced to prioritise their work and simply are not interested in following up on this sort of criminal violation though I am preparing a further letter which I shall submit by email (which I've found effective in getting a response) in the hope they will show more interest this time.

I previously contacted them when they were simply placing notices under my wiper blade and was told that there was nothing the Police could do as they had not forced entry to the secure area (the Officer who called me had personal experience of PPC and had advised a friend to simply ignore a 'penalty invoice' he had been incorrectly issued with). He said he would instruct someone to be down in an instant to arrest them if they sought to clamp my vehicle etc and would be very happy to throw the book at them in that instance (something the English amongst you can look forward to in the coming months, Police officers are victims of these scams too and some harbour very negative emotions towards this practice). Unfortunately though I doubt much will be done, my previous car was broken into in the same secure area and after the 'special' constable came out to gather fingerprints and analyse CCTV he advised that I get hold of the CCTV footage myself and deal with it if I could identify them (as although the thieves could be identified the police would not proceed with just CCTV footage of a thieves with hooded sweaters/jackets on trying to conceal themselves). I can't work if I have a criminal record so vigilante acts are not high on my list of good ideas as I very much doubt I would escape prosecution (unlike career thieves).

Coupon-mad

Try to get that crime number for the criminal damage, and get a quote for getting the sticky stuff off your windscreen (from a car valeting firm maybe).

Then prepare to make a Small Claim for the damage and your Court costs, plus interest.

Before issuing a Small Claim you'll be expected to follow Scottish pre-Court protocols which you may like to read up on. Assuming the rules are similar to E&W, this will involve sending the company and the Factor a Letter before Action telling them you're taking them to Court and giving them an opportunity to settle this out of Court.

Another idea is to go to a Solicitor and take out an injunction against the PPC but this will cost you money. You could do that and then include the injunction costs in your Small Claim, I think - but you should check with the Court first as this may not be something you can include in a Small Claim.

Finally, have you checked your car insurance and house insurance policies to see if you have legal cover? Sounds obvious but I overlooked this until recently in a claim I am preparing against an Airline, then I realised I do have legal cover and have received help already with my Small Claim.

Coblcris

No charge to the landowners does not mean that consideration has not passed.
Consideration has many forms.
See Tweddle.

They are joined.

Slik

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Try to get that crime number for the criminal damage, and get a quote for getting the sticky stuff off your windscreen (from a car valeting firm maybe).

Then prepare to make a Small Claim for the damage and your Court costs, plus interest.

Before issuing a Small Claim you'll be expected to follow Scottish pre-Court protocols which you may like to read up on. Assuming the rules are similar to E&W, this will involve sending the company and the Factor a Letter before Action telling them you're taking them to Court and giving them an opportunity to settle this out of Court.

Another idea is to go to a Solicitor and take out an injunction against the PPC but this will cost you money. You could do that and then include the injunction costs in your Small Claim, I think - but you should check with the Court first as this may not be something you can include in a Small Claim.

Finally, have you checked your car insurance and house insurance policies to see if you have legal cover? Sounds obvious but I overlooked this until recently in a claim I am preparing against an Airline, then I realised I do have legal cover and have received help already with my Small Claim.

I have been pondering the details of my buildings insurance - it's administered through the factors so using any associated legal cover (if applicable) would be sweet justice.

It is my intention to try to get a crime number to use to add substance to an insurance claim etc. I'm reluctant to let the tickets build up on the car but allowing them to do so would clearly highlight the 'vandalism' I am subject to.

Luckily enough I was a car valet for about a year or so so I have an appreciation of costs and am currently self-employed thus can quantify the value of my time accurately.

Coblcris - I'm a little confused, I appreciate that consideration can take many forms including non-material promise etc i.e. potentially a level of service in exchange for access etc? No consideration has been agreed or exchanged by myself and I have not conferred my legal rights to another legal party (i.e. no other person or legal body has power of attorney over my affairs) to enter into any contract on my behalf.

The fact that the PPC are 'providing a service' in return for access to my property and permission to affix notices could be construed as a agreement in which considerations have been exchanged (if that's the correct term?). The third party (the Factor) who have apparently entered into a contract with the PPC have no legal right to do so and must be acting illegally (I'm sure they would try to argue they are acting in the best interests of their clients but I would be disgusted if assuming power of attorney and entering into a contract with a third party to the detriment of the the property owner was not illegal).

Does anyone have prior experience of a Factor or Landowner receiving remuneration or other incentive for permitting a PPC to access property? I would be very interested to learn if this is common practice as I can't believe the factor would pursue this matter and try to supress opposition to the scheme as enthusiastically as they have without some financial advantage.

AlexisV

Keep it simple:

• 1. Get a quote for a new windscreen.
• 2. Put it in writing to the factors. Put in a figure for your time in having to deal with the whole situation (say £50).
• 3. Jointly sue the factors and Central Ticketing through MoneyClaim online. This will cost about £30, which you'll get back.

Your windscreen will probably come back at £100, £50 time and effort explaining your situation to the landowners over and over, plus £30 court fees + interest, so you'll probably be suing for about £185.