No respect for learner drivers!

Kilty_2

Lum wrote: »

While I'm no fan of such people it is worth bearing in mind that these people tend to spend the majority of their working day on the road.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the majority of them will be governed by a suitable Occupational Road Risk Policy that specifically forbids the kind of behaviour most of them display.

So moaning about the job forcing them to drive all day and then driving in a way the company say they absolutely must not means I've no sympathy.

Lum

Kilty wrote: »

It's also worth bearing in mind that the majority of them will be governed by a suitable Occupational Road Risk Policy that specifically forbids the kind of behaviour most of them display.

So moaning about the job forcing them to drive all day and then driving in a way the company say they absolutely must not means I've no sympathy.

I've done that job, as a service engineer rather than a rep so I didn't get a fancy car, and while these policies exist on paper, in reality you are given stupid schedules that don't really give you any option. For example one time I was stopped at a burger van in Dundee having visited a customer that morning, it was 11:30 and my boss calls and tells me I'm needed in Liverpool before 4PM or we'll miss our SLA, get a penalty clause and it'll be coming out of all our bonuses.

My dad is in a similar line of work, he lives near Birkenhead and the office will pull stunts like ring him at 4:30 as he's leaving a job to come home and send him to a 10 minute job in Ryhl, once again they don't pay overtime so now he's stuck in all the tourist traffic from bloody Ryhl on a Friday and doesn't get home until 7. Once again, you can see why van drivers might then get annoyed when they're stuck behind an elderly couple with a caravan who want to view the scenery on the A50.

The policy is just there as a cover your !!!! measure to shift liability on to the driver when bad things inevitably happen. You cannot do the job and stick to the policy in most companies, if you do stick to the policy then your performance is poor and you're accused of letting the side down when no-one in your division gets a bonus, you explain that there's no way you can fit in any more jobs and the response is "Everyone else manages it"

With sales reps they're even worse because they're on commission. The caravanner delaying them 20 minutes could cost them a few grand because they turned up late and the customer has gone home or to a competitor. Sure you can say they're motivated by greed, but once again I'll say I'm not trying to defend their behaviour, just explain that there is more to it than just "BMW drivers are all cocks". To solve it you really do need to address the root cause.

DaveF327

Lum wrote: »

while these policies exist on paper, in reality you are given stupid schedules that don't really give you any option.

This whole scenario just stinks of bad management.

if you do stick to the policy then your performance is poor and you're accused of letting the side down when no-one in your division gets a bonus, you explain that there's no way you can fit in any more jobs and the response is "Everyone else manages it"

My response to that would be, "Everyone else can work overtime for free, then. I'm off home to spend time with the wife and kids."

Seriously, if I had that crap thrown at me day in, day out, I'd just look for another job.

This may be a good time to bring up an interesting piece of legislation, namely section 89(4) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984:

89.-(4)If a person who employs other persons to drive motor vehicles on roads publishes or issues any time-table or schedule, or gives any directions, under which any journey, or any stage or part of any journey, is to be completed within some specified time, and it is not practicable in the circumstances of the case for that journey (or that stage or part of it) to be completed in the specified time without the commission of such an offence as is mentioned in subsection (1) above, the publication or issue of the time-table or schedule, or the giving of the directions, may be produced as prima facie evidence that the employer procured or (as the case may be) incited the persons employed by him to drive the vehicles to commit such an offence.

If I had an !!!!!!! of a boss who demanded I drive from Dundee to Liverpool in 4 hours, I'd be sorely tempted to zap past a speed camera on purpose, wait for the paperwork, then make a statement to the police with evidence of the mickey mouse schedule to drop the sod right in it. Once my colleagues all do the same and the boss quickly racks up the points for procuring or inciting the offence, he'll soon change his management tactic.

pulliptears

I followed a girl a few weeks ago who never drove above 20mph and stalled a few times at the junction. I stayed back, let her regain her confidence and recalled being in a similar position some 19 years ago. Shame the line of cars behind who could see her stress decided that hammering on the horn and adding to it was the way forward.

Impatience on the part of experienced drivers only serves to scare and stress a learner and would I imagine increase the likelyhood of any accidents.

Lum

DaveF327 wrote: »

Seriously, if I had that crap thrown at me day in, day out, I'd just look for another job.

I did, thank you. Sadly my dad is an awful lot closer to retirement so going job hunting, especially in the current climate, is not such a good idea. Luckily he isn't treated anywhere nearly as badly as I was.

This may be a good time to bring up an interesting piece of legislation, namely section 89(4) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984:

Nice idea but as it's done through cajoling, bonuses and guilt trips for making everyone lose their bonus the Act doesn't apply as at no point were you actually required to do any of that, on paper, it's all done verbally and untraceably. They know what they're doing and you don't have the evidence to prove otherwise.

Like I said, I'm sure some companies don't do this and their drivers are just idiots, but I am under no doubt that there are also companies worse than mine. I'm also well aware that with the commission based pay structure that is standard in the sales industry then it's even worse for that lot, even in companies that do none of the behaviour I've just described.

katebl

I have to say I agree with a lot of the posters that blame the instructors for the harrassment learner drivers face. We drivers all had to start somewhere and most reasonable ones remember how hard it can be. HOWEVER when you're stuck at a main set of lights with dozens of others waiting to get home from work, and rather than go through the residential alternative route and not hold anyone up the learner is at the front of the queue having stalled 3 times and watched the lights turn red again, you start to get annoyed . If they can't do a basic move such as moving away :eek: (!) they probably shouldn't be on a busy route at 5.00pm. That, I think, is bad planning on the instructors part!

DCFC79

Learners and new drivers(most of them as there a few who get into bad habits) i dont have any problems with as they drive safely, its the minority of other drivers who are complete imbeciles

Lum

katebl wrote: »

I have to say I agree with a lot of the posters that blame the instructors for the harrassment learner drivers face. We drivers all had to start somewhere and most reasonable ones remember how hard it can be. HOWEVER when you're stuck at a main set of lights with dozens of others waiting to get home from work, and rather than go through the residential alternative route and not hold anyone up the learner is at the front of the queue having stalled 3 times and watched the lights turn red again, you start to get annoyed . If they can't do a basic move such as moving away :eek: (!) they probably shouldn't be on a busy route at 5.00pm. That, I think, is bad planning on the instructors part!

It's not always the instructors fault. A half decent instructor will wait until they think the driver is ready before they take them out into rush hour traffic to learn how to deal with congestion and idiots.

However it's impossible to predict how someone will react to this. You can take an educated guess but there's always a chance that someone will go to pieces as soon as they're surrounded by so many people going so fast and so impatiently, then they make mistakes and this results in more aggression, impatience and idiocy, causing more stress for the learner and more mistakes. It can quickly spiral out of control.

Maybe this explains why, earlier on in the thread, the instructor had the learner drive through a red light. Having finally gotten the car under control, they felt it best to have the learner leave this awful situation before it all went to !!!! again at the next light change.

anna_p86

Thanks for the replies. The comments saying 'don't take it personally' are spot on. I was of course, but realise that's ridiculous. Thanks again :beer:

anna_p86

Lum wrote: »

Out of interest do many learners use the area that you are driving in? There used to be one estate near me that had a huge variety of junction types and thus all the local driving schools took learners there all the time, at any given time (during working hours, obviously) you could find 4 or 5 learners pootling around the estate at 5 below the speed limit, stalling their cars and being hesitant. I used to take a slightly longer route through a different estate to avoid them, so I can't imagine how aggravating it would be to actually live there. One person I knew did mention that a couple of potential buyers for their house had decided not to because of all the learners.

Not this particular road but do understand what you're saying. There are definitely certain places that instructors like to go too, it must be slightly annoying when you have three learner drivers in your road all doing manoeuvres!