Log burner - to line or not to line?

Cerol

hi there everyone, I am new to the forum and looking for some advice...

I have an empty fireplace that used to house an open fire although when this was last used I am unsure. When I moved into the house 8 years ago, it had been blocked off, a gas fire was in place and the chimney had been lined with a gas fire flue.

I had the gas fire removed and have never replaced it as I just used central heating to heat the house. I don't want to pay ever higher gas bills though so I am looking at putting in a log burner. So far, I have had two different people come out to check the house and give me a price. The first person came out, didn't look at anything other than the existing fireplace. He quoted for everything I needed all in at £1,500 including a liner.

The second person came out, checked everything including going up in the loft to look at the chimney stack, did a smoke test, said the chimeny was sound and has said I don't need a liner. The job all in with him will cost £800.

I am now stuck as I don't know which way to go. I don't want to go for the cheaper option and find that I then have to retro fit a liner at £1K but its nearly half the price of the liner guy. I am always a believer in buy-cheap buy-twice but on this I am confused as i don't have any experience with log burners. Does anyone have any advice they can offer, it would be really appreciated!!

Thank you

Cerol

mysterons

Gas fire liner is no good for a wood burner so that'll need removing. Might as well get a proper 5" or 6" liner (depending on the stove) installed at the same time. A smoke test doesn't prove if the chimney is sound unless it's done with the chimney capped and the fireplace sealed off once the pellet is lit. Otherwise the smoke will just exit the pot proving nothing.

markandkate

You will need decide whether to have a liner or not.As the previuos poster has said an existing liner will not be suitable.

If you do not have a liner then deposits can get into cracks in the brick work these can cause chimney fires. You will also get a lot of soot and need to have your chimney swept regularly.

The big down side of a liner is the cost. £1500 sounds about right because the liner is stainless steel. You will need a cover on top of the chimney it will deter the birds from warming their bums on your chimney and faling down or pooing in them.

MY OH was dead against paying for a liner but in the end he agreed as we were concerned that in the event of a fire the insurance would not pay out if we did not have a certificate

A._Badger

markandkate wrote: »

If you do not have a liner then deposits can get into cracks in the brick work these can cause chimney fires. You will also get a lot of soot and need to have your chimney swept regularly.

You will need to have your chimney swept regularly, anyway. As often as every six months, depending on what you burn.

Out of interest, why do you think soot will collect more rapidily in these cracks when a stove is used than it would with an open fire?

markandkate

"Out of interest, why do you think soot will collect more rapidily in these cracks when a stove is used than it would with an open fire"

I am not sure what point you are making the poster asked whether to line their chimney not what sort of fire to use.

With a liner as the sides are smooth there is less chance of anything sticking to it and deposits etc are more liley to fall back into the fire. https://www.hetas.co.uk have more advice on liners and installation in general.

A._Badger

markandkate wrote: »

"Out of interest, why do you think soot will collect more rapidily in these cracks when a stove is used than it would with an open fire"

I am not sure what point you are making the poster asked whether to line their chimney not what sort of fire to use.

With a liner as the sides are smooth there is less chance of anything sticking to it and deposits etc are more liley to fall back into the fire. www.hetas.co.uk have more advice on liners and installation in general.

The point I'm making is that liners are a new idea and chimneys are not. I am wondering why you think the installation of a stove would pose more problems due to soot accumulation in these 'cracks' than would an open fire.

You are sayng the OP would need a liner with this as a justification. I'm probing that justification to see if it makes sense.

There are reasons why liners are a Good Thing (TM). I'm just asking you why you think that is one of them.

Cerol

hi everyone and thank you so much for your replies - the smoke test was just a single pellet and wasn't capped off on top (i read in a different thread about the two man test required to make it a proper one)....the second person who quoted said he could come back and do this if I was concerned so I think I might take him up on it. Also, the guy who I would be buying a fire from recommended I fit carbon monoxide alarms in rooms that the chimney passed through. I would definitely do this as it's our bedroom!

The problem I'm having with deciding is like A.Badger says - the second person who came out to quote said that a liner wasn't needed as the chimney would be absolutely fine as it was made for an open fire and to extract smoke. ie. it's its purpose in life!

Having the chimney swept regularly is all part of it - both people who quoted said there would be access for this as part of the fit.

I will take a look at the hetas website - thankyou for the link!

I'm still confused though. Has anyone had a fire put in using their existing chimney and then had to fit a liner afterwards or has everyone been fine with what they've had? Or is the liner always put in without question? Both quoters have worked in the log burner business for years and have good references - the liner guy is a slicker operation with website and brochures etc. The other guy used to own the local log burner business and has been putting in fires for 30 years but isn't anywhere near as flash. The second guy also recommended a firefox 5 which is a couple of hundred less than the first one's recommendation.

It's all so confusing!

Cerol

A._Badger

You're absolutely right, Cerol - this is a terribly confusing market.

I have had my chimney lined because, on the balance of probablities (and to shut my insurance company up, in the event of a claim) it seemed the better course of action.

On the other hand, I remain pretty secptical about some of the supposed benefts of lining and have a suspicion that lining can sometimes cause problems of its own.

In answer to your question about chimney fires - yes, I did have one once, but (how's this for irony?) it was in a lined chimney that had been swept three months earlier. I have never had a fire in any other chimney, as I have them regularly (professionally) swept.

My instinct, were I in your position, would be to call back the experienced chap who quoted you and go through it with him, stage by stage. Ask him about the claims made for the advantages of lining and see what he says. If he sounds convincing and is willing to back his workmanship and experience, I'd be very tempted to trust him.

Please let us know how you get on.

John_3:16

We had our burner fitted to a existing fireplace that had a gas fire put in.

The chimney already had a pot liner in that was for use with the open fire.

I think you need to state wether you have a brick lined chimney or you may have a pot liner in.

You may also just have a copex lining that is used for gas, as this is not any good for a wood burning stove.

hethmar

The local bloke who I assume is selling you the woodburner? what is the £800 for? - ? may be happy to make his profit on the stove and then leave you to sort out the lining job. It may well be he isnt registered to line and it may also be that if a customer hears how much the lining costs he may lose his sale of the stove?

What is the other man charging £1500 for? Just lining?

Sweep access is a legal requirement by the way. From 1 October Carbon monoxide alarms are also requried. And you should ask them about completion certs and data plates. You can check HETAS to see if they are both registered to install stoves.

For Mr Badger - Im sure that you will be aware that an open fire loses up to 80% of the heat up the flueway. The plus side of this is the heat going up the flue takes a lot of the rubbish/resin in flue gases with it. The enclosed stove kicks out about 80% (hopefully) of heat into the room. Hence, less heat taking away the rubbish which can then settle more readily on the internal masonry.

A._Badger

Yes, Hethmar, I've heard the HETAS lecture time and time again. However, I also recall that your partner is a HETAS installer (as you've so often told us), so I'd suggest that you have a slght vested interest in promoting the benefits of liners. Unless you, personally, have done some research into this issue, can we assume that what you're doing is simply relaying what your partner/HETAS tells you?

Clearly, the OP's installer doesn't agree and it seems quite reasonable that she should take into account his 30 years' experience - particularly as he is proposing to sell her less work, rather than more.

It seems quite unnecessary to impugn his motives, simply because he disagrees with what you have been told.