footballnomics

sjaypink

No season tickets for OH this year (nor last). This is mainly down to our finances/ priorities. Think season ticket sales were down nearly 20% last year. Remained the same this year- probably helped that the prices went down (not that that was because we were relegated for the 2nd year in a row or anything)

Know someone with Man Utd season ticket. Used to make quite a bit of profit off the matches he couldn't attend. Couldn't shift many them last season. Also, think they started some new thing where they had to buy Europe tickets as well as the standard (league) season ticket, which put people off?

Thrugelmir

vivatifosi wrote: »

Out of interest, isn't that what its all about these days? Not content with yacht envy or who can buy the biggest house, the wealthy now have to throw money at football clubs to buy titles. I don't know that much about the current premier league, but which teams could win the title this year that aren't the playthings of the hyper-rich?

Clubs are brands. Much in the same way that multinational companies dominate F1 through sponsorship. Once the Glaziers suck the £95 million of cash out of MUFC to service the debt repayments. There's not a lot left in the way of assets. No more Ronaldos to sell. The Champions League will be the test of how far English football has fallen behind.

The lack of transfer activity in the Championship shows how dire the financial situation has become. On the first day of the season neither Derby or Portsmouth named 7 substitutes. They didn't have the players.

However as a supporter of football for years. This may be the best thing to happen in 20 years. As the lower football leagues become competitive again. Football will be interesting with unpredictable results. Priced fairly. Fans will return to the game.

Thrugelmir

sjaypink wrote: »

Know someone with Man Utd season ticket. Used to make quite a bit of profit off the matches he couldn't attend. Couldn't shift many them last season. Also, think they started some new thing where they had to buy Europe tickets as well as the standard (league) season ticket, which put people off?

Guy I work with is MUFC season ticket holder. Automatically gets billed for all European home games. Drives from Swindon to get to the games. Though he has muttered already that this year may be the last.

Generali

Masomnia wrote: »

As far as I know that's true; though I believe the debt is secured against the club, if that makes a difference.

The way I understand it (and I'm happy to be corrected) is that the Glazer debt is secured against shares in the club rather than the assets of the club. As such if the Glazers meet certain default terms in the debt covenants, ownership of the club will change. However, the club itself remains solvent, regardless of what happens to the debt.

From memory, the next default point is reached next year (or perhaps 2014) where if the next PIK* instalment isn't met then the hedge fund holding the most debt can put in a director of its choosing to sit on the board of Red Football, the company that the Glazers use to hold shares in Manchester United. The whole of the PIK is repayable in 2017 which presumably would be the default point that would trigger a change in ownership of the club if the Glazers can't come up with the readies.



*PIK = Payment In Kind bond. Instead of making regular interest payments, the interest is rolled up into the bond and is repaid along with capital upon maturity. Bonds like this can mature in stages as I believe the Man Utd one does. PIK is a very risky form of debt because the lack of regular interest payments means that the amount of money owed is constantly rising and the ability to make interest payments is an obvious sign of solvency.

Thrugelmir

Generali wrote: »

The way I understand it (and I'm happy to be corrected) is that the Glazer debt is secured against shares in the club rather than the assets of the club. As such if the Glazers meet certain default terms in the debt covenants, ownership of the club will change. However, the club itself remains solvent, regardless of what happens to the debt.

In simple terms . The Glaziers can extract cash from the football club. Which they will need to do to service the debt interest at the very least. So in a business sense there may be little capital available to invest into the playing squad. Which could mean less income as success falls away. Creating a potential downward spiral as Leeds encountered some years ago.

From a footballing view there's a real lack of firepower upfront. Owen's retirement hasn't helped either.

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In simple terms . The Glaziers can extract cash from the football club. Which they will need to do to service the debt interest at the very least. So in a business sense there may be little capital available to invest into the playing squad. Which could mean less income as success falls away. Creating a potential downward spiral as Leeds encountered some years ago.

It's possible. Man Utd won't 'do a Portsmouth' as the club itself is solvent. I think people get a bit carried away about Man Utd's debt. They are just running themselves like any other business.

The real financial problem that Man Utd and Ars**al face is that increasingly clubs are being bought up by owners that want to throw money at them as a toy. That is pretty much impossible to compete against if you are running your club as a normal business. If Blackburn Rovers, Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool are being run without any obvious concern for the bottom line, what happens to Man Utd and Ars**al?

Tottenham came 4th last year with a wage bill of < £60,000,000. Their business model, fortunately for them as they so rarely get it, doesn't mean they need Champions League money pretty much every year. Ars**al came 3rd with a wage bill > £105,000,000. Where does the extra £45,000,000 come from? Champions League mostly.

Really2

Chlamydia wrote: »

Really2 I doubt any club has a waiting list of 5 years.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/tickets/season-tickets

The prices listed below are for the season 2010/11. Please note there is currently a waiting list of many years for a new Season Ticket.

Hear is a thread on it. dated last year.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=131328

1)So guys, how long have you been waiting now? 14 years for me.
2)7 years for me

Just going on what people are saying about how long they have been opn the list.

Thrugelmir

Generali wrote: »

The real financial problem that Man Utd and Ars**al face is that increasingly clubs are being bought up by owners that want to throw money at them as a toy. That is pretty much impossible to compete against if you are running your club as a normal business. If Blackburn Rovers, Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool are being run without any obvious concern for the bottom line, what happens to Man Utd and Ars**al?

Unlike Manchester United..... Arsenal are financially healthy despite the debt.

2009 - Operating profits (before depreciation and player trading) in the football business were £62.7 million (2008 - £59.6 million).

Thrugelmir

Seems as if the premiership is now the most unequal league in the world....

Chelsea 6 WBA 0
Arsenal 6 Blackpool 0
Wigan 0 Chelsea 6

Only 14,476 turned up to watch the Wigan match today. Is TV slowly strangling the game now?

StevieJ

lemonjelly wrote: »

I've noticed on a number of football forums (not just relating to my own team) that less people appear to be going to matches, especially away games. It seems that a lot of clubs are returning unsold tickets to the opposition nowadays.
..

Man Utd away tickets are like gold dust