Can seller get away with charging this p&P???

Mrs_justjohn

I think what justjohn and I are trying to say is, this whole "P&P charge" and "free P&P" and "compulsary free P&P" and the like is largely Ebay propeganda and to a certain extent (small scale) brainwashing and I am not sure how to explain this but I will give it a go!

Ebay tell the sellers (see the above extract from the Ebay help page that I posted) that it is ok to charge Postage Costs, Packaging Costs, Insurance Costs and a handling charge. However you are not allowed to add these on as 'optional' and must be 'lumped in' as "P&P Charge". Then they tell the buyers to rate the sellers on P&P (by means of F/B or DSR's.) Now as the buyer can only know for sure the ACTUAL postage cost as they will not know your ACTUAL packaging costs or handling fee's incurred they are led to rate you without knowing all the facts (in actual fact if you use some methods of posting like PPI (i believe) they do not even get to see what you ACTUALLY paid in postage costs).

So for arguements sake if they pay £2.95 P&P and the item arrives with a PPI label on it in an 'unpriced' jiffy bag. They may BELIEVE they have been overcharged but it may not necessarily be so! They may then give you low stars.

As some have pointed out this has implications for a seller in demoted search standings etc..etc...

So the Seller combats by reducing the P&P to a bare minimum and 'hiding' the extra charges in with the item cost. Similar to waht they do if they offer free P&P. Now the only person winning in this situation is Ebay as they are getting more in FVF's.

cyberbob

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Yes largely I agree.

The point I am making is not whether it is ok to overcharge on P&P ...it is rather how do you KNOW that you are being overcharged....LOL. Just because someones P&P is higher than the next does not mean they are overcharging you, it may be because their envelopes are dearer....(To keep it simple). My point is that you (the buyer) has a choice to buy or not to buy, and the seller will accordingly have choices to make on their selling strategy.

Your argument here is flawed sometimes the buyer doesn't know the cost it will be to send an item untill it arrives. I'm afraid buyers aren't psychic. I have bought stuff and when it has arrived I realised that it was a lot lighter and is poorly packed. So if someone has charged me 3 or 4 times the actual postage cost for an item and packed it in a recycled bin bag. i will make my feelings known with DSRs. A few ones or twos and any seller can be in trouble.

Mrs_justjohn

cyberbob wrote: »

You seem to be massively missing the point. Yes you can charge a handling packaging fee but ebay customers are hot on postage as Crowqueen said if you charge what is perceived to be high charges your sales will be lower and the sales you do make your DSRs will likely get hit which cann effect your selling.

On lower price items I normally have free postage so all my costs including packaging are in the BIN price. My sales went up when I started this. On Auction items last year I started to charge less than cost price on the P&P element and put the extra costs in my start price. Since then for similar items I have had better sales and higher prices.

We can all look at the rules and see that in theory a handling fee can be charged but it really doesn't matter as the people who judge what is acceptable is the customers.

I'm happy for other sellers to charge handling fees, fees for there shoes and taking there dog for a walk to the post office etc. It just means that I appear higher in searches (the cheaper the P&P the higher you appear in searches) and I make more sales due to customers hating high postage.

PMSL

I am not missing the point....I am merely trying to explain that one persons P&P charges can LEGITIMATELY be more than other sellers for a variety of reasons. It does NOT mean they are ripping buyers off!

and....with this in mind should a buyer be allowed to rate someone on their 'perception' of what costs were incurred by the seller?

This is ebay telling sellers it is ok to do one thing and then brainwashing buyers into believing that although ebay says it's ok to do it's not really 'acceptable'....LOL:rotfl:

macfly

I think you are all missing their point. If comparable goods are cheaper, despite a higher postal charge, that is competetive. I would always buy a "total cost" item which is the cheapest. Any body with a brain would. The rest, dst's etc. are just ebay trying to get you to police the site for free.

Mrs_justjohn

cyberbob wrote: »

Your argument here is flawed sometimes the buyer doesn't know the cost it will be to send an item untill it arrives. I'm afraid buyers aren't psychic. I have bought stuff and when it has arrived I realised that it was a lot lighter and is poorly packed. So if someone has charged me 3 or 4 times the actual postage cost for an item and packed it in a recycled bin bag. i will make my feelings known with DSRs. A few ones or twos and any seller can be in trouble.

Personally as long as the item arrives intact and as described and not in anyway damaged by the 'inadequate' packing then I am happy, regardless of the P&P I paid. As in my mind I knew what I was paying (in total) up front for the item to be delivered 'as described' to my door, and as long as I get that I don't mark down sellers!:T

Crowqueen

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Yes largely I agree.

The point I am making is not whether it is ok to overcharge on P&P ...it is rather how do you KNOW that you are being overcharged....LOL. Just because someones P&P is higher than the next does not mean they are overcharging you, it may be because their envelopes are dearer....(To keep it simple). My point is that you (the buyer) has a choice to buy or not to buy, and the seller will accordingly have choices to make on their selling strategy.

You can usually tell from the cost on the label, though I very seldom actually look and don't make a fuss, as a buyer at least. As a seller I know it's important to people and since I use my local POs, the label always shows the price.

If you are selling anything in large quantities then sourcing your packaging as cheaply as possible to keep your own costs down is important.

For example I buy Featherpost padded envelopes from Poundland - a packet of 6 costs a pound and then there are even better bargains on eBay itself. Compared to 70p from my local post office and £1 each from WHSmiths, you are a fool if you are paying more than 16p for a perfectly adequate DVD size envelope.

I don't recycle packaging because I don't often have the right size of envelope for what I'm posting, but conversely I do allow myself a reasonable charge for packaging at these sort of costs and refund everything over a 50p markup, changing prices to suit.

It's not that I necessarily disagree with charging a small handling fee, but it's got to be small.

Mrs_justjohn

macfly wrote: »

I think you are all missing their point. If comparable goods are cheaper, despite a higher postal charge, that is competetive. I would always buy a "total cost" item which is the cheapest. Any body with a brain would. The rest, dst's etc. are just ebay trying to get you to police the site for free.

Hooray....someone else who 'gets' what I am saying....I think?:rotfl:

It is Ebay properganda and brain washing in trying to get buyers to force sellers to give low P&P costs or free P&P (sometimes at a loss to themselves) so that these costs go in with the item charge and ebay get more in FVF

Mrs_justjohn

Crowqueen wrote: »

You can usually tell from the cost on the label, though I very seldom actually look and don't make a fuss, as a buyer at least. As a seller I know it's important to people and since I use my local POs, the label always shows the price.

Not always!! I am unsure if it is Packet Post or PPI or Paypal labels or the like...but at least one of those does not show the cost!!


For example I buy Featherpost padded envelopes from Poundland - a packet of 6 costs a pound and then there are even better bargains on eBay itself. Compared to 70p from my local post office and £1 each from WHSmiths, you are a fool if you are paying more than 16p for a perfectly adequate DVD size envelope.

Well our jiffy envelopes (for a DVD size) cost around 2.4p each but we buy by the pallet load....Therefore if both you and I were to charge ACTUAL P&P costs then it would appear that you are overcharging as I can send then cheaper than you. As I have said before though that wouldn't ACTUALLY be the case it is not that you are overcharging it is just that you are not as cheap as me!!...LOL
:rotfl:
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Crowqueen

I don't think it's just eBay pushing inclusive postage, and I don't think it's propaganda.

A lot of the online marketplace sites that actually have a lot of traffic through them either cap postage or have free/inclusive postage. Play.com has been inclusive since its inception and I frequently buy things from Amazon now that most of their own stock is free delivery. I think buyers also have some say in the matter too, which is reasonable, since they are the ones paying.

#51 - if you are able to buy jiffy-bags by the pallet load, why are you defending the people that lard postage costs then?

justjohn

this is irrellivent because all you should look at is TOTAL PRICE.

BUT
Ebay tell the buyer rate the seller on the price you see on the parcel and also on the packaging quality
Ebay tell the seller add admin to p&p its allowed
Two different statements to line ebays pockets.

Which are totaly irrelivent anyway as all the buyer should be interested in is the total price for the article to land on there doorstep.

how ebay make there money and how the seller makes there money should not matter a jot to the buyer. Anything ebay/seller says/does is irrelevent as long as the buyer gets the item at a good price.

Ebay attempt too condition and minipulate there customers as it can improve there profits.