Free solar panel discussion

PeterZ_2

thedj wrote: »

The point is Cardew you were saying my post was "nonsense". So I responded by suggesting it was you who was talking nonsense, as the saying goes.... "you started it"!

Anyway, not wanting to get into protracted mud slinging as I have better things to do, my system so far (8 days) has generated 71 kwh which is about £28.00 in FIT payments. I reckon my usual domestic electricity use to be on average about £1.18 pence per day so I could add that in which brings total to about £36.00 to date.

If I start to average out given poorer weather days I will work on my system generating about £60.00 per month. So £720.00 per year. Official calculations are slightly higher at £868.00.(tax free)

I am no financial wiz as indeed I am not an 'electrical engineer' wiz but my schoolboy calculations tell me that if I put £5200 into an ISA for one year at a rate of 2.5% then my annual return will be £130.00. (tax free)

So at the moment solar vs bank savings looks like a pretty reasonable bet towards solar to me?

It would be helpful if you could tell us what system you have installed and how that is the best system or perhaps what is a better alternative to the option most people have at present which is paying utility companies for ever increasing electricity?

While I agree that solar looks like a good bet at the moment, dont forget that once you spend your money on the panels, its gone.

My view is that once you install solar panels, wind turbine, biomass, whatever, that equipment pretty much has zero value. From what I read second hand solar panels can not be used for claiming FITs - so that makes them worthless.

Better to think of it as a home improvement, such as insulating your loft. No one would buy second hand loft insulation, but it will save energy and provide a good return.

Putting aside the arguements over the details of what gives the best returns, or which method is the most efficient way to generate electricity, every solar panel, wind turbine, hydro, wave, biomass, nuclear power station, electric car, better insulated house - all helps us to move away from our dependance on fossil fuels.

Cardew

PeterZ wrote: »

However, now that we know you are electrical engineer, I would love to hear what you think the best solution is to the looming energy crisis we face as the cheap oil starts to turn into expensive oil. Its very easy to criticise others, I would like to hear your solutions.

Not really sure why you are bringing up magnets and fuel lines, those things are a rather obvious junk science scam and do not work.

The junk science magnets and fuel were brought up to illustrate how people will defend the indefensible, rather than admit they got it wrong.(I speak as someone who bought 2 Betamax VCRs and a Toshiba HD DVD thinking Blu-ray wouldn't catch on!!!!)

Giving a solution to the looming energy crisis is way above my pay grade.

Nuclear is an obvious candidate - but recent events in Japan will strengthen the hand of the Greenham Common ladies.

Many geologists argue there are sufficient oil reserves to last hundreds of years – just that extracting it is expensive or not feasible with current technology. This link gives some figures for conventional reserves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

The potential for oil shale is massive.

Coal reserves are huge; even in UK. The coal industry was destroyed by Maggie to crush miners whose union leaders had delusions of power. Looting North Sea oil and gas reserves gave a short term fix.

If it is deemed that Solar PV is part of the solution – so be it. However it is quite ludicrous to install thousands of tiny systems(how Green is that!) and pay subsidies of 40p+ a kWh. Install huge farms in Southern England on factory rooftops.

Don’t ask me to discuss the minutia of the above – as said it is ‘above my pay grade.’

P.S.
The looming oil crisis is not considered as important to many as the Global warming and fossil fuel burning.

Underscore

zeupater wrote: »

Probably better to look around, get your surveys done and then either sit on the quotation for the anticipated reduction, or be proactive and negotiate a price reduction now ....... there's plenty of margin for the installers to play with, whatever they tell you :D

Good Luck .... let us know how it goes .....

I ended up going with Tesco, so I got £150 in clubcard vouchers off the near 15k that I paid for the system - much happier than if I had rented the roof. Once the FiTs start to come in I will report back on how much I actually receive compared to estimates etc. The installation was smooth enough and I was happy with it.

I also had a doorknock the other day from my old pals at the energy saving group, now offering Solar heating, with a new government grant scheme - which upon further investigation I find out won't be starting until June 2011. Not sure where they think the panels for that will go either, since the south-facing roof is now pretty much covered with the PV system - but wife has just had a baby and I'm on paternity leave, so its their time they will be wasting. Will report back when they've been round for what looks to me like a pointless survey.

John_Pierpoint

So they are talking "solar thermal" (Hot water) with a "deemed" performance subsidised from the "Renewable Heat Incentive" it is meant to generate a 6% return (another annuity type investment similar to the Feed in Tariff). BUT have the exact terms and conditions for that been published yet or are they on a flyer?????

pmpm

Underscore wrote: »

I ended up going with Tesco, so I got £150 in clubcard vouchers off the near 15k that I paid for the system - much happier than if I had rented the roof. Once the FiTs start to come in I will report back on how much I actually receive compared to estimates etc. The installation was smooth enough and I was happy with it.

I also had a doorknock the other day from my old pals at the energy saving group, now offering Solar heating, with a new government grant scheme - which upon further investigation I find out won't be starting until June 2011. Not sure where they think the panels for that will go either, since the south-facing roof is now pretty much covered with the PV system - but wife has just had a baby and I'm on paternity leave, so its their time they will be wasting. Will report back when they've been round for what looks to me like a pointless survey.

Do you know which panels and inverter tesco has installed?

PeterZ_2

Cardew wrote: »

The junk science magnets and fuel were brought up to illustrate how people will defend the indefensible, rather than admit they got it wrong.(I speak as someone who bought 2 Betamax VCRs and a Toshiba HD DVD thinking Blu-ray wouldn't catch on!!!!)

Giving a solution to the looming energy crisis is way above my pay grade.

Nuclear is an obvious candidate - but recent events in Japan will strengthen the hand of the Greenham Common ladies.

Many geologists argue there are sufficient oil reserves to last hundreds of years – just that extracting it is expensive or not feasible with current technology. This link gives some figures for conventional reserves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

The potential for oil shale is massive.

Coal reserves are huge; even in UK. The coal industry was destroyed by Maggie to crush miners whose union leaders had delusions of power. Looting North Sea oil and gas reserves gave a short term fix.

If it is deemed that Solar PV is part of the solution – so be it. However it is quite ludicrous to install thousands of tiny systems(how Green is that!) and pay subsidies of 40p+ a kWh. Install huge farms in Southern England on factory rooftops.

Don’t ask me to discuss the minutia of the above – as said it is ‘above my pay grade.’

P.S.
The looming oil crisis is not considered as important to many as the Global warming and fossil fuel burning.

Thanks Cardew, I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

Regarding oil, we will never run out of oil. Its not running out that is the problem, its the cost of getting it out is the issue coupled with increased demand and purchasing power from China that will also drive up demand and prices.

We have large coal reserves, but my (limited) understanding is that we have used most of the best coal and what we have left is mostly low grade. But while he plently of coal I dont really fancy a steam powered car

As you say, the North sea oil and gas is a short term fix.

Completly agree that it makes sense to cover southern factory roofs with solar.

Cardew

PeterZ wrote: »

Thanks Cardew, I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

Completly agree that it makes sense to cover southern factory roofs with solar.

Just wish to make it clear that I don't think Solar in our latitudes is a good idea - period.

However if it is deemed necessary by our masters, let us at least produce it as efficiently and cheaply as possible.

Even more efficient(if still not sensible!) is put our huge solar farms in Southern France or Spain*. Electricity could be sent to us via the big fat cable that runs under the Channel that supplies us with nice clean Nuclear electricity. That cable is rarely needed in daytime, so could easily be utilized.

* Any plans to site our solar farms in the Sahara and feed the power to Europe look a little silly with recent events in Libya!

Thinking about it, Spain might not be a good idea if Spurs beat Real Madrid next week!

Doc_N

pmpm wrote: »

Do you know which panels and inverter tesco has installed?

Mine were Sharp and SMA Sunny Boy - very pleased with the way Tesco (Mark Group) did the installation.

Equaliser123

Doc_N wrote: »

Mine were Sharp and SMA Sunny Boy - very pleased with the way Tesco (Mark Group) did the installation.

Another endorsement for Mark Group - this time through EnactEnergy (formerly Green Project (who are totally clueless but cheap!).

14 Sharp 235w and SMA 3000TL - £9,990.

ronlizpatsimon

I only joined this forum today. I have read, with interest, about a quarter of the posts.
I noticed a few things of special interest;-

Someone remarked that solar panels might be more efficient in the future as global warming affects us. I believe that the opposite is true. The planet will be warmer due to increased pollotants in the atmosphere. Yes this equates to warmer air, but these pollutants will impede the solar radiation and so panels will be less efficient.

Someone else advocated (due to economies of scale) that it was more economical to errect the panels in open countryside rather than on rooftops. This is generally not true because no allowance has been made to encompass the fact that countryside can be used for other purposes (crops or grazing). I don't think sheep would enjoy grazing on my roof tiles!

Another remark of interest was that someone had worked out what gadget to use so that surplus energy could be diverted to an immersion heater. Surely no such gadget is needed. You just switch on the immersion heater and turn off the normal oil or gas boiler. Electricity for the immersion heater will automatically flow from your new system in such a way that if your panels are not producing enough power to power the immersion heater then the shortfall will be made up by drawing it from the mains.

Hopefully someone will enlighten me - without being as rude or abrasive as several of the posts have been!