Free solar panel discussion

PeterZ_2

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I'm afraid I can see that Cardew is correcting your views with the realities of the situation. You may not like that reality, and it may not be what you have been led to expect, but at least you now know what the reality is. Of course, you are still at liberty to believe what the salesman told you - that's up to you.

The reality is that we have been spoilt by the easy energy that oil provides us. Moving away from it is going to be hard, but the reality is that we have no choice.

thor

PeterZ wrote: »

The reality is that we have been spoilt by the easy energy that oil provides us. Moving away from it is going to be hard, but the reality is that we have no choice.

I agree we will have no choice. The public don't appear to realise the seriousness of the situation. Oil is getting harder and harder to reach and we are having to go to ever more dodgy countries to get further supplies. There will come a stage when there will be no more however much money you have to splash out with. Renewables may be intermittant and less efficient but in fifty years time it may be the only source of power left. If the t*ats in government got their heads out of their a*ses the urgency built up will provide a massive motivation to prepare for the future.
What we really need is for nuclear fusion to work.

Cardew

PeterZ wrote: »

I saw a post on here somewhere that said that Cardew works for an energy company which would explain his knowledge in this area.

Well I haven't read such a post; perhaps you can refer me to where that was written; you can use the search facility.

However, just in case this 'urban myth' spreads:

I do not, and never have, worked for any energy company or in the energy industry. That includes the fields of oil, gas, electricity, coal, Nuclear etc.

I am a Chartered Electrical Engineer, which means I do have some knowledge of 'things electrical'. There are a number of other posters who have similar knowledge.

If I have any agenda at all, it is to prevent people with a vested interest in promoting their industry or company on MSE. In particular those who subtly or overtly use ‘green wash’ to give a totally distorted picture of the financial advantages of ‘environmentally friendly’ products.

If anyone wishes to adopt green practices, at least let them be aware of the financial implications of that practice.

Lastly there are far too many people who post authoritatively on MSE on subjects where their knowledge is clearly ‘challenged’. That would be of little consequence except these authoritative posts are believed, and people can act on their advice.

There is an unfortunate tendency on MSE for some people to defend their purchase, or course of action, rather than admit it was a poor decision.

If you look on the motoring section there have been many many posts from people who bought a device that is nothing more than a magnet. They are adamant, and say they have definitively proved, that this device strapped to the fuel lines of the car, or oil Central Heating, improves fuel consumption by 30% or more(because it lines up the molycules(sic). The oil companies also apparently are in league to supress information about these products.

PeterZ_2

Cardew, I haved tried searching but have been unable to find the post, my searches bring up too many results. But I am sure that another poster said you worked for an energy company, not that it matters now you have set the record straight.

However, now that we know you are electrical engineer, I would love to hear what you think the best solution is to the looming energy crisis we face as the cheap oil starts to turn into expensive oil. Its very easy to criticise others, I would like to hear your solutions.

Not really sure why you are bringing up magnets and fuel lines, those things are a rather obvious junk science scam and do not work.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but any big business will go to great lengths to protect its interests, that includes solar panel companies and oil companies. Just look at what the tabbaco companies have done in the past to surpress information.

thedj

The point is Cardew you were saying my post was "nonsense". So I responded by suggesting it was you who was talking nonsense, as the saying goes.... "you started it"!

Anyway, not wanting to get into protracted mud slinging as I have better things to do, my system so far (8 days) has generated 71 kwh which is about £28.00 in FIT payments. I reckon my usual domestic electricity use to be on average about £1.18 pence per day so I could add that in which brings total to about £36.00 to date.

If I start to average out given poorer weather days I will work on my system generating about £60.00 per month. So £720.00 per year. Official calculations are slightly higher at £868.00.(tax free)

I am no financial wiz as indeed I am not an 'electrical engineer' wiz but my schoolboy calculations tell me that if I put £5200 into an ISA for one year at a rate of 2.5% then my annual return will be £130.00. (tax free)

So at the moment solar vs bank savings looks like a pretty reasonable bet towards solar to me?

It would be helpful if you could tell us what system you have installed and how that is the best system or perhaps what is a better alternative to the option most people have at present which is paying utility companies for ever increasing electricity?

PeterZ_2

thor wrote: »

I agree we will have no choice. The public don't appear to realise the seriousness of the situation. Oil is getting harder and harder to reach and we are having to go to ever more dodgy countries to get further supplies. There will come a stage when there will be no more however much money you have to splash out with. Renewables may be intermittant and less efficient but in fifty years time it may be the only source of power left. If the t*ats in government got their heads out of their a*ses the urgency built up will provide a massive motivation to prepare for the future.
What we really need is for nuclear fusion to work.

I agree 100%

Nuclear fusion would solve the majority of our problems and who knows, maybe a break through in the next couple of year may mean that we see it within our lifetimes. Being realistic, its going to be many decades away, if ever.

The general public are starting to become more aware of the issues we face, but human nature is to push problems to one side and ignore them rather than face them head on.

It would take a very bold and brave government to make the commitments that we need. Expect to see a mad rush once the smelly stuff hits the fan.

Equaliser123

thedj wrote: »

The point is Cardew you were saying my post was "nonsense". So I responded by suggesting it was you who was talking nonsense, as the saying goes.... "you started it"!

Anyway, not wanting to get into protracted mud slinging as I have better things to do, my system so far (8 days) has generated 71 kwh which is about £28.00 in FIT payments. I reckon my usual domestic electricity use to be on average about £1.18 pence per day so I could add that in which brings total to about £36.00 to date.

If I start to average out given poorer weather days I will work on my system generating about £60.00 per month. So £720.00 per year. Official calculations are slightly higher at £868.00.(tax free)

I am no financial wiz as indeed I am not an 'electrical engineer' wiz but my schoolboy calculations tell me that if I put £5200 into an ISA for one year at a rate of 2.5% then my annual return will be £130.00. (tax free)

So at the moment solar vs bank savings looks like a pretty reasonable bet towards solar to me?

It would be helpful if you could tell us what system you have installed and how that is the best system or perhaps what is a better alternative to the option most people have at present which is paying utility companies for ever increasing electricity?

I think the problem I, and others have, is that you are changing your story.

You said earlier that you are averaging £4-£5 per day FIT. Yet the story so far with your system is 71kwh - that equates to £3.66 per day. Below your average.

Then you say that on a 2.2kwp system you can keep a kettle boiling all day. You CAN'T. Your system couldn't keep a normal kettle boiling for a second on a brilliantly sunny day. Most kettles are 3kw. Your system couldn't ever independently boil a kettle.

So the problem I have with your views is that you are way off mathematically and realistically.

Equaliser123

thedj wrote: »

I am no financial wiz as indeed I am not an 'electrical engineer' wiz but my schoolboy calculations tell me that if I put £5200 into an ISA for one year at a rate of 2.5% then my annual return will be £130.00. (tax free)

You don't have to be a financial wiz (sic) to understand that a) you can get 3.3% in a cash ISA (more in equities); and b) the comparison to a cash ISA is misleading as there is always the possibility to retract your investment and put it elsewhere. No such solution exists for panels fitted to your roof.

zeupater

Equaliser123 wrote: »

You don't have to be a financial wiz (sic) to understand that a) you can get 3.3% in a cash ISA (more in equities); and b) the comparison to a cash ISA is misleading as there is always the possibility to retract your investment and put it elsewhere. No such solution exists for panels fitted to your roof.

Hi

... and a couple of weeks ago you could get 5% on a 5 year FRISA with 18 months loss of interest on early withdrawal, similar to panels in a way, ie ... a long term investment, but you can still get your hands on the cash if necessary ... :cool:

Z

Cardew

thedj wrote: »

The point is Cardew you were saying my post was "nonsense". So I responded by suggesting it was you who was talking nonsense, as the saying goes.... "you started it"!

Anyway, not wanting to get into protracted mud slinging as I have better things to do, my system so far (8 days) has generated 71 kwh which is about £28.00 in FIT payments. I reckon which brings total to about £36.00 to date.

If I start to average out given poorer weather days I will work on my system generating about £60.00 per month. So £720.00 per year. Official calculations are slightly higher at £868.00.(tax free)

I am no financial wiz as indeed I am not an 'electrical engineer' wiz but my schoolboy calculations tell me that if I put £5200 into an ISA for one year at a rate of 2.5% then my annual return will be £130.00. (tax free)

So at the moment solar vs bank savings looks like a pretty reasonable bet towards solar to me?

It would be helpful if you could tell us what system you have installed and how that is the best system or perhaps what is a better alternative to the option most people have at present which is paying utility companies for ever increasing electricity?

Thehd.

You invited comments on your post.

You estimated £1400pa and have now revised that to £720 but got irate because I estimated £730.

What is the relevance that "my usual domestic electricity use to be on average about £1.18 pence per day so I could add that in" That seems to imply you believe your panels will cover your electricity costs of over £400.

I can't understand either the relevance of £5200 in an ISA when you paid over £10,000. That sum in a long term savings account will produce over £400pa tax paid.

You make the 'error' of comparing £10,000 spent on panels as £10,000 invested in a bank. At any time with an investment in a bank you still have that money plus interest. Spend it on panels on your roof and you have err --- panels on your roof! and have to wait 10 or 12 years before it becomes profitable.

IMO PV panels should be seen as an annuity.

As I said at the end of the post to which you took exception:

Lastly, the general consensus of opinion is that PV systems like yours will turn out to be a good long term investment if the Government don’t mess about with subsidies.(and you don’t try and boil a 2.5kW kettle all day) However there are lots of factors to be considered – not least repairs and replacements. I take it you didn’t get a 30 year guarantee?

Is that not a reasonable conclusion?