Cameron 'slips up' over World War II history

StevieJ

Sapphire wrote: »

F*cked over in that their country, which they had fought heroically for (and not just over Britain's skies), was sold off the the Russians via Churchill, Roosveldt and Stalin in return for peace in the West.

When you have this guy making comments like that below, the Poles (and the others) had no chance at Yalta :eek:

'I just have a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of a man. ... I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask for nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace. '

—Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1943

ruggedtoast

marklv wrote: »

it was the British government that decided to declare war on Germany in 1939 despite it being obvious that Hitler was no directly hostile intentions towards Britain. Letting the Nazis and the Commies fight it out would have exhausted both powers while allowing Britain more breathing space and valuable time to prepare her defences.

No such thing was obvious. Both blocs would have swallowed up Britain eventually if they had gained control of Europe.

The rationale for entering the war was that if we hadnt, either the Nazis (probably very quickly ), or the Soviet Union (perhaps eventually) would have won. That would have meant the entire continent of Europe under the complete control of an expansionist, power hungry, and somewhat mental, dictator.

Britain declared war on Germany and began supplying the Russians in an attempt to prevent this happening.

The fact we held out for years, beating the Germans in the air, on the sea, fighting them to a standstill on important theatres on the ground, while simultaneously being pummelled by bombing on civilian centres and still supplying the Russian landwar with no help at all from our "Special Relationship" friend until they had a) made a fortune out of all this misery and b) could join the watr at a point they were pretty sure they couldnt lose, was not a "small contribution".

Its interesting that the Americans always come out with the "You'd be speaking German if it wasnt for us line" As there just as much evidence to suggest that if we hadnt stopped Hitler overrunning Russia, so would they.

Edit: dont even get me started on the French.

ninky_2

the fact that cameron screwed up some dates about ww2 is the least of my worries about him as pm.

tincans

lemonjelly wrote: »

Every day I think it is getting worse for the lib dems.

Speaking with a friend last night who admitted voting for them in the GE. He's furious with them. Every reason they gave him to vote for them they have backtracked on. He is adamant that he'll never vote lib dem again.

He is even going so far as to say when the AV vote happens, he's voting against it as he doesn't want "that party" anywhere near power ever again.

He agreed with me that there will be an ideological split in the lib dems, & that it won't take long for the cracks to appear.

But that did make me think. I wonder how many others will feel similar? If so, it means that the tories granting an AV referendum will amount to little other than a token gesture, as there could be so many people so angry with the lib dems that they'll vote against their notions.

Your friend sounds like me.
It seems like they are making a catastrophic mistake and the most disillusioned are the Lib-Dem activists who are highly effective in getting local election votes out.

Vince Cable about to be humiliated on HE funding.

Generali

ninky wrote: »

the fact that cameron screwed up some dates about ww2 is the least of my worries about him as pm.

What's your biggest?

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

What's your biggest?

too many to just pick one.

the whole 'big society' thing is a wolf in sheep's clothing though.

Thrugelmir

Lotus-eater wrote: »

If Hitler had been a top class Military man, we would have easily lost the war, with or without the USA's help.

Then you need to understand Dunkirk, the events before hand. As the BEF was tactically caught unawares. By a smaller less superior armoured fighting force.

It was the sheer number of English and French personnel that were ultimately saved. That probably influenced Hitler's invasion plans.

ruggedtoast

Lotus-eater wrote: »

That's all very well, but in 1939 the USSR and Germany weren't at war, in fact they had a lovely pact going on.
So letting them fight it out would have been a bit difficult

If Hitler had been a top class Military man, we would have easily lost the war, with or without the USA's help.

When Stalins military commanders started reporting that Hitler had declared war on them and were blitzkrieging through Soviet territories, one of the reasons it took him so long to react was that he simply didnt believe them.

So convinced was he that Hitlers offers of friendship were genuine it apparently took him two days to accept what was going on.

Of course most of his military commanders could have told him that before, but then they'd have been telling him something he didnt want to hear. And people who told Stalin things he didnt want to hear didnt do so well.

Generali

ninky wrote: »

too many to just pick one.

the whole 'big society' thing is a wolf in sheep's clothing though.

Gotta shortlist?

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

Gotta shortlist?

not really something i've spent my time doing no. most of the conservative party election manifesto would be eligible though. along with cameron's hansard record.