Cruel School?

meritaten

Fang wrote: »

I bow to your greater knowledge. I apologise if I have upset you. With all due respect, you know nothing of writing so don't comment on that if you insist I do the same on mining.

??? I havent commented on writing have I? I accept your apology in the same spirit in which it was given!
I well remember the angst over essays and later on my open university assignments, so maybe, just maybe I am qualified to comment on writing. Of course, I am not a published author (are you?) and have no wish to be. but for MSE purposes - I believe I write legibly and get my point across.

Fang_3

meritaten wrote: »

??? I havent commented on writing have I? I accept your apology in the same spirit in which it was given!
I well remember the angst over essays and later on my open university assignments, so maybe, just maybe I am qualified to comment on writing. Of course, I am not a published author (are you?) and have no wish to be. but for MSE purposes - I believe I write legibly and get my point across.

I am. Trust me when I say that writing an essay or university assignment is nothing compared to the stress of writing and re-writing features for money. I wrote an advisory book that was published in May, and I am currently writing my first fiction book. Both have different challenges and rewards, but writing 55,000 words on a topic that I wasn't that interested in to begin with for a split £500 advance, is a special torture reserved only to those in the darkest pits of hell.

During that time it wasn't unknown for me to spend ten - twelve hours solidly writing and then crawl into bed and sleep for 36 hours due to sheer exhaustion. On the positive side, come 2011 and I can look forward to my first royalty cheque! There should be about 27p winging its way towards me.

Spendless

galvanizersbaby wrote: »

With all due respect I am sure as in your case mistakes are made but we do have a receipt book and a receipt is written and handed to the parent when they have paid for anything (they are then marked paid in the book) - there is not time to validate everything with signatures (the leaders and helpers all give up their own time and are unpaid)
It takes long enough to adminster all the paperwork/forms involved and collect them all back etc...

Besides in the case of this particular parent we don't see her in person she just drops her son off - he had to practically lie in wait to get to speak to her last night with the end result being a load of verbal...I doubt she would hang around long enough to sign anything!

I'm not talking everything though, just receipts, to stop the club being out of pocket when incidences like this occur. Personally I think it's a 2 second job to add J Spendless or even J.S on something you are all ready writing out, giving it to a parent to sign can be done when you are doing the next transaction, ie taking the subs the parent moves further along the table to sign iyswim not taking up extra time, but if you already have a receipt book there shouldn't be an issue-unless she is saying you forgot to write it down (which is why I suggested adding signatures). In my son's case there was no written copy, so just one word against another.

ETA In fact thinking about it it doesn't even need the Beaver leaders signature on it, as their handwriting will be on, just the initials at least of the parent and then no-one can say but I paid you and it's another parent that hasn't - (which is what had happened in my case).

BTW-If she doesn't turn up to give you the dosh-then how is she so sure she paid? Is it possible that she gave her son the money for the trip and he hasn't handed it in?

thebaileys

Spendless wrote: »

BTW-I wish the OP would come back and tell us whether or not she raised the issue with the school and what the response was.

Hi, I have managed to get a response from one of the nursery teachers. They said because the show was classed as enrichment, they were under no obligation to take the non payers in to watch the show. Had it been a school trip they would have had to allow them on the trip. It is the head that makes the rules. My son is going to attend a different school in september, something I am feeling relieved about!

onlyroz

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

Why should those children whose parents are in the fortunate position to be able to afford these trips gain an advantage over those that cant/dont want to.

People are still missing the point. These trips/events are excellent value for money - therefore it's precisely the less-well-off that will benefit the most from them. I cannot believe that so many people would rather that schools did not offer these experiences at all. How many theatres can you visit for £5 a ticket? I don't know of any....

trickytrolleys

meg72 wrote: »

In my post I called these little more than babies, OK stand corrected they are children. no need to sound more emotive surely.
They are very very young children. In my day they wouldnt even have been at school. Do you expect a 3-4 year old to understand financial things, I dont, they were the ones punished by not attending the show, not the parents. Although if if was just an oversight I do the the parents will punish themselves when they realise what happened.

Surely a three to four year old is entitled to be innocent of these matters and cared for by all of society. The show was already paid for. Why the need to so publically remove these little ones, if that is a more acceptable description of them. For christs sake they will learn soon enough of the lack of money.

IT WAS WRONG TO WRONG TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THESE CHILDREN IN SUCH A PUBLIC WAY

it's petty and nasty for the sake of it, the show had already been paid for as they were at the school performing - to deny toddlers the chance to watch it, I just cannot get over how shocking that is, I think I would have stood up and asked for contributions and stated very loudly that the little ones weren't being allowed to watch - hopefully it would have shamed the teachers into not doing that kind of thing again.

It takes a special kind of adult to lead those little ones out and deprive them - a cruel streak :mad:

galvanizersbaby

Spendless wrote: »

I'm not talking everything though, just receipts, to stop the club being out of pocket when incidences like this occur. Personally I think it's a 2 second job to add J Spendless or even J.S on something you are all ready writing out, giving it to a parent to sign can be done when you are doing the next transaction, ie taking the subs the parent moves further along the table to sign iyswim not taking up extra time, but if you already have a receipt book there shouldn't be an issue-unless she is saying you forgot to write it down (which is why I suggested adding signatures). In my son's case there was no written copy, so just one word against another.

ETA In fact thinking about it it doesn't even need the Beaver leaders signature on it, as their handwriting will be on, just the initials at least of the parent and then no-one can say but I paid you and it's another parent that hasn't - (which is what had happened in my case).

BTW-If she doesn't turn up to give you the dosh-then how is she so sure she paid? Is it possible that she gave her son the money for the trip and he hasn't handed it in?

Yes you are assuming here I think that the parent hangs around while you are dealing with the next transaction - in my experience many don't seem to get as far as the desk.

The leader appears to spend his time trying to contact parents out of Beavers time

The parent in question can't be sure she has paid - she could of course have given the money to her 6 year old along with the consent form (also unreturned) - I seriously doubt that - she didn't pay for the trip to the planetarium last year or the subs for the term just finished (cheque has bounced again) unfortunately I think it's the case now that the leader will have to contact her to say that if at least the subs are not paid her DS will not be able to return to Beavers.

Although he has paid the trip money there is also a form to be signed which he is not allowed to waiver so if she doesn't stick around long enough on Wednesday to fill it in the poor little chap will have to miss out on the trip anyway

vaio

Would it be worth editing the leaders name out and also the trip destination as I think it could make individuals identifiable.

On your post, wouldn’t it be easier to include the cost of trips in the subs? Means you only have to collect one payment per term and of speads the cost over the year for the parents

Rainey_LB

I think it would be very sad if schools stopped offering day trips at the end of the summer term like some people have suggested, my kids thoroughly enjoy them. They have both been on trips related to the topics they have been working on and I think it really benefited them. I accompanied one of the trips and the kids were so excited on the coach on the way and it was great to see them exploring with their friends. I still remember fondly going on school trips when I was at school and my parents had to pay too, its nothing new!

Schools don't make any profit from these trips, they are not allowed to and must refund any overpayments. It is also not schools fault that they are not given a budget for such things. If your school is asking for money for all sorts of things you don't think you should have to pay for, get involved in the PTA, a good PTA who raises lots of money, can subsidise these things, but if nobody gets involved there will be no money for extra's.

The biggest part of the cost these days is the coach, entrance to most places if reduced significantly for schools and most places offer a number of free accompanying adult places. It is normally a free adult per required ratio of adults to children.

Its also a lot of hassle for the schools to set up the trips with all the risks assessments, collecting & chasing payments permissions, etc. Plus most do include some sort of educational workshop, so its not just a jolly for the kids they are still learning....from the workshop and the experience.

Schools should also have hardship funds (again quite often funded by the PTA), if you really can't pay, if you contact the head, confidentially help can be arranged, whether the trip is funded for you on this occasion or you agree a reduced payment depending on your circumstances. Unless you tell the school you have a problem they will have to keep chasing you for payments.

As I said before if these children were excluded this way it does sound a bit harsh, but there could be all sorts of other reasons, who did the OP hear this from the school or another parent who had made an assumption?

galvanizersbaby

vaio wrote: »

Would it be worth editing the leaders name out and also the trip destination as I think it could make individuals identifiable.

On your post, wouldn’t it be easier to include the cost of trips in the subs? Means you only have to collect one payment per term and of speads the cost over the year for the parents

Great Bear is pretty universal for a Beaver leaders name so think will be ok;)

To be honest it's a bit depressing really - I work full time and try to help where I can - I'm just a parent helper I can't give them the commitment - I take my hat off to the scout leaders who give up their time for the kids.
tbh just reading through this thread puts me off
The leaders are really sympathetic to anyone that is having financial difficulty - I just feel sorry for them having to deal with the small minority of parents who appear to take the pee time and time again.