biting

alm721

To the op, there was a similar situation with one of my friends with sons of a similar age gap. My sister in law suspected the older one was biting/bullying (albeit without knowing really what they were doing) the younger one but really didn't do anything proactive about it. One night she was bathing them both when the door bell went. She left them to answer the door (i know!) when she went back unstairs the younger one who was 2, was face down in the water not breathing!, (the 4 year old didn't shout her) He ended up having to be resusatated by the next door neighbour. It was a very frightening experience for her as you can imagine. She still doesn't know to this day whether it was an accident or not. It may well have been but I know as much as she doesnt like to think it ,she never convinced herself it was an accident. Thankful there was a happy ending although she never left the two of them alone together again. I really am not posting this to worry you but I would say if you have any doubt in your mind then trust your instincts.
Children can lash out for all sorts of reasons and at that age are not fully aware of the consequences of their actions. I f you think your daughter is biting/nipping your son, you must take action so stop it.

Savvy_Sue

Have you asked nursery for help / advice? It's a very common problem with children of that age, but at 4 she is definitely old enough to know she shouldn't, and to find out that actions have consequences. She bites Boris, she gets no attention for it, he gets lots of fuss. She can't be trusted with Boris, so she gets to go to bed with no playtime with him. And so on.

****kara****

In answer to your posts Sassy no my children don't kick etc they don't get smacked unlike a lot of kids I know. The only punishment they get is there favourite toys taken away. You think placing my teeth on there skin makes me an unfit parent?, well thats laughable really it is.

xmaslolly76

Hi Kara i have done the biting back thing in the past after the HV advised me to do it to stop the older one biting people i think it was a common practise back then and although it seemed to work its not something that they condone or encourage anymore. I do think people need to stop being so judgemental its not like you bit a chunk out of your child. Times have changed and there are more effective ways of dealing with the problems now but if we carry on in this stupid Nanny state way there will be absolutely no respect from any of the future generations as although children should not live in fear they should have some understanding that their actions will lead to consequences if they dont behave in an acceptable manner. Unfortunately we now have a generation of children who are quite frankly untouchable and they know it so they get away with everything.

mrcow

xmaslolly76 wrote: »

Hi Kara i have done the biting back thing in the past after the HV advised me to do it to stop the older one biting people i think it was a common practise back then and although it seemed to work its not something that they condone or encourage anymore.

My Mum did it and still swears that it worked. She certainly didn't "abuse" any of us and to suggest so (comparing her to people who have had social services involved because they are a potential danger to their own children) is quite frankly laughable.

Mind you - none of us (4) grew up biting each other, or anyone else for that matter so maybe she had a point.

Joelleski

My mum also did it to me, I was a rabid ankle biter as a tot apparently, and after drawing blood one day as I bit my mum, she picked me up and bit me back. I never bit anyone after that. I had a healthy upbringing, certainly not abused. Maybe at that time it was the done thing, it didn't damage me ...

heretolearn_2

Lots of parents do the bite back thing and it usually works like magic. It's just giving them a taste of their own medicine and showing them that OUCH! that really does hurt, that they might not have understood before. Kara don't let people wind you up about it. Which is better - to have a biter bitten once or another child bitten repeatedly?

Not that I'm saying this is what you should do OP. It's nice that you are looking for reasons for this behaviour but frankly if your daughter is generally happy and ok, then it's going to be either jealousy or just turning into the bully through being the biggest (I shudder when I think about what I did to my younger cousins sometimes) and enjoying the 'power'. In either case, it's time to be less sympathetic to her and more to your son. When she does it he should get the hugs and sympathy and she should get a serious punishment, whatever it is that you use in your family. Right now your reaction to it is actually rather nice for her, isn't it, she gets mummy's special attention and sympathy, gets to be all emotional (crying can be great - and often totally manipulative - when you are that age), and it's all about her. You need to teach her that this is totally unacceptable. And don't leave them unsupervised until you are sure she's stopped.

Pee

When I was very young I bullied my younger sister. I don't remember biting, but I do remember being very aggressive. I am sure that some of this was jealousy, but I was also being bullied at school and so I was bullying her at home. Mum would smack me when she caught me but I don't actually think that was what stopped me, I think gradually she became old enough to play with and fun rather a nuisance and I grew out of it.

Is it possible that your daughter is being bullied?

I think speaking to the Health Visitor is a great idea, as I am sure that it happens a lot.

miss_maid

heretolearn wrote: »

Right now your reaction to it is actually rather nice for her, isn't it, she gets mummy's special attention and sympathy, gets to be all emotional (crying can be great - and often totally manipulative - when you are that age), and it's all about her. You need to teach her that this is totally unacceptable.

Hi OP!

The quote above from heretolearn is the first thing I picked up on when I read your post. It seems that the 4 year old is getting a lot of attention from this behaviour, then her crying probably leads to you and your partner soothing her.

I wouldn't leave them alone together, next time it happens lay all the attention on the 2 y.o, ignore the 4 y.o, give her time out (naughty step/room) for 4 mins, maybe take away a toy or something and make her apologise to her younger brother, shows that this behaviour is not acceptable and that there'll be consequences. Dont acknowledge her crying/claming up.

Good luck with it all

Savvy_Sue

xmaslolly76 wrote: »

Times have changed and there are more effective ways of dealing with the problems now

Sometimes I wonder ... As you go on to say ...

xmaslolly76 wrote: »

Unfortunately we now have a generation of children who are quite frankly untouchable and they know it so they get away with everything.

Anyway, this struck me as a very sensible response:

heretolearn wrote: »

In either case, it's time to be less sympathetic to her and more to your son. When she does it he should get the hugs and sympathy and she should get a serious punishment, whatever it is that you use in your family. Right now your reaction to it is actually rather nice for her, isn't it, she gets mummy's special attention and sympathy, gets to be all emotional (crying can be great - and often totally manipulative - when you are that age), and it's all about her. You need to teach her that this is totally unacceptable. And don't leave them unsupervised until you are sure she's stopped.

As I've mentioned before, my eldest could be quite 'difficult', in that his behaviour was sometimes completely incomprehensible, and he would just 'blank' me if I asked why, for example, he'd broken up a very complex Lego model his little brother had spent hours making. Even if she KNOWS that she's biting Boris IN ORDER TO UPSET HIM, she clearly can't say that because she knows it's wrong. So it doesn't matter WHY she's doing it, maybe she has been upset at school or she feels pushed out at home - well tough, life is hard, life is unfair, DEAL WITH IT, and NOT by biting your little brother.

There were times when I was getting the "But he started it / he kicked me / he did this that or the other", and I would just say " I DON'T CARE who started it, it is stopping NOW!"

I don't know your DD, but it might be worth working out what's going to happen next time she bares her little fangs, sitting her down without Boris, and telling her. Whether it's going to the naughty step / going to bed straight away (if it usually happens in the evening) / being kept at home while Boris goes to the park (if it usually happens at the weekend / when your partner is home and you can separate them). Just tell her: biting people is wrong, and if you do it, this will happen. No arguments, no fuss, and quite frankly you won't care if she does cry. Then do it.