king size mattress foam / sprung HELPPPPP

Tim_Deegan

silverfoxuk wrote: »

Tim's comments can be informative, but you'll find it frustrating if you waiting for a recommendation on a particular bed. Tim's not allowed to recommend anything as such. A recommendation from Tim is like the holy grail. Many have sought but few have found! Tim's criteria of what he thinks is good could be though of as fairly 'narrow' once you chuck out everything Tim has criticised in the past. Not dissing Tim, just observing

That's because you have mainly been looking at a retailer that is very expensive. So at the price range you were looking at you won't get a good quality mattress.

silverfoxuk wrote: »

For what it's worth I don't work in the bed trade and have little knowledge of beds. I have been recently looking around for a mattress. We have just spent 5-6 weeks checking a few out. My suggestion to you if you are starting out would be to read some threads here then go to some bed retailers and lie on all the different types including:

Open coil
Pocket sprung
Foam
etc

Also lie on different fillings/toppings so:

Memory foam
Latex
'other stuff' eg wool, polyester, horsehair whatever.
etc

We did this, spending a couple of hours each weekend for a few weeks testing beds in different shops. This I think helped us narrow down the type of bed that suited us and that was broadly in our budget range.

As I said above, you were looking at mattresses within your budget in a very expensive store.

silverfoxuk wrote: »

I disagree with those who say testing a bed in a shop is a waste of time, and just buy online from a seller who lets you unwrap & sleep on the bed, and send it back if you don't like it. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - you could do both if you wanted to. ie try a few out in the shops then buy online from a seller with a guarantee.

You have actually twisted my words around. I said that trying a mattress out in a shop, fully clothed, for about 10 mins, can only give you a very rough idea.

If you buy from a retailer who gives a proper satisfaction guarantee (especially one who may have to deliver from the other end of the country), and actually ask them for advice, then it will be in their interest to make sure that you make the right choice the first time. So they are unlikely to just push you towards the most expensive mattress that earns them the most comission, otherwise it will cost them a lot of money to exchange it. So like I said, talk to them, and answer all their questions, and then they should be able to use their experience to make sure you make the right choice. Afterall you won't really know if a mattress is right for you until you have slept on it for at least a week.

silverfoxuk wrote: »

Value wise (which is a separate issue from 'is this bed good or not?' construction/quality) you are probably cheaper shopping online.

Value for money is directly linked to quality. A poor quality mattress wouldn't be good value if you don't get a comfortable nights sleep on it. It would be a complete waste of money.

silverfoxuk wrote: »

But you do need to check returns policy, as you would do with a regular shop. Once a mattress is unwrapped, many retailers won't have it back if you don't like it, although it's a different issue if the mattress is faulty in some way - all sellers should replace it with one that is not faulty.

Very true. Some retailers say 'satisfaction guaranteed', but when you read their returns policy, they only comply with distance selling regs, and don't allow you to unpack and sleep on a mattress if you want to return it.

silverfoxuk wrote: »

I wouldn't get too hung up on double sided mattresses. Yes they are likely to have a longer life, but whilst many people might be able to 'rotate' their mattress once in a while (thats from head to toe), for some actually turning the mattress over is not physically possible. Therefore if this applies to you, why pay for a double sided when you're only going to sleep on one side? If though your are physically fit and have a budget that can buy a double sided, go for it.

I'm afraid you are very wrong on this one. A two sided mattress will last far longer than a non turn one.

If you are strong enough to rotate a mattress head to toe, then you should be able to turn one over. All you have to do is first of all clear your bedside table. The get hold of the handles on one side, and slide the mattress towards you. Then you simply flip it over. This is far easier than trying to pick it up and turn it over.

Non turn mattresses came out when memory foam mattresses came out. They only put the memory foam on one side because the memory foam is the most expensive part of the mattress, So it makes them cheaper to manufacture. Non turn mattresses are not for your convenience, they are to save production costs.

You will actually see manufacturers who sell two different mattresses that actually contain the same spring system. One mattress will be non turn, and the other two sided. With the non turn one they will say that it is for your convenience, and that the mattress has been specially constructed so that it doesn't have to be turned. However you must rotate it end to end. On the two sided mattress they will tell you to turn the mattress over on a regular basis in order to prolong the life of the mattress......what does this tell you???

silverfoxuk wrote: »

Which? had a report out a few months ago on beds. That might be worth a look. I think it's down to your own personal preference and taking a lot of what you hear with a pinch of salt. In fact if you read through the threads on beds on MSE, you will likely be as knowledgable as your average salesman in a bed shop - sometimes more so

£400 - £500 should get you a very decent mattress.

Good luck!

Again very true. Although I have lost faith in Which magazine recently. In 2008 they did a memory foam mattress review in which Tempur came out bottom. Well I know for a fact that FIRA carried out the tests, and Tempur really kicked off at the results, and complained over and over again. Them which did another mattress review recently in which they put a Tempur mattress top.........I don't know about you, but to me this stinks, especially when they only test a very small range of mattresses, and the numbers reviewing each type of mattress is very low.

silverfoxuk

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

For those who aren't in the trade it is very difficult (if not impossible) to tell the difference between a good quality mattress, and a poor quality one. This is because two mattreses may appear to have a very similar spec going by what is published, but there is much more to the spec than the manufacturers and retailers often tell you.

One rough guide is that most of the big retailers charge at least double the on line stores (even when the big retailers have so called sales). So if you find a mattress in one of the big stores reduced to lets say £300, then you could probably find the equivalent on line for around £150.

As far as the number of pocket springs go, you should be looking at between 1000 and 1800 (in a king size). However, there are cheap and nasty pocket springs that don't give very good support, and there are good quality full size steel pocket springs, which give far better support. With pocket springs you don't need to get a firm mattress to give good back support. This is because pocket springs all work independently, and contour to your body. So you can actually go for the firmness you like, rather than thinking you have to go for a firmer mattress.

Also the fillings can make a big difference. The insulator pad stops the springs from pushing into the quilting. There are various qualities of insulator pad. Also the number of layers of quilting and the density of them can make a huge difference.

With memory foam, it is best to have the memory foam on top of springs. This is for two main reasons. Firstly mattresses made from memory foam on top of reflex foam can be very hot and sweaty, because air can't circulate through the spring layer to dissipate the heat from the memory foam. Secondly, reflex foam is constructed from loads of bubbles. In time these bubbles can start to burst, which can end up leaving a dip in the mattress. As far as the depth and density of memory foam goes, you should be looking for 2" depth, and a density of 60 to 70kg per m3.

Many mattresses that contain latex foam only have a very thin layer. And some only have this layer in zones. What you really need to be looking for is a full 2" deep layer. Also some manufacturers use synthetic latex, or a blend. What you need to be looking for is natural latex.

Never buy a pillow top mattress with loose fillings.

Try to buy a two sided mattress, as it will last far longer than a non turn mattress.

That post should be made a 'sticky' for mattress buyers! Nice one Tim.

silverfoxuk

I assume a mattress sitting on top of a sprung divan in a shop, will feel softter on the divan and 'firmer' if buying for a wooden bedstead at home? A friend warned me about this ie they tried one out in a shop and it felt 'medium', on a sprung divan, so bought it but when got it home on top of a wooden bedstead, now felt very firm? Can this happen?

Tim_Deegan

silverfoxuk wrote: »

I assume a mattress sitting on top of a sprung divan in a shop, will feel softter on the divan and 'firmer' if buying for a wooden bedstead at home? A friend warned me about this ie they tried one out in a shop and it felt 'medium', on a sprung divan, so bought it but when got it home on top of a wooden bedstead, now felt very firm? Can this happen?

Yes it will if it is a sprung divan in the shop.

wary

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

For those who aren't in the trade it is very difficult (if not impossible) to tell the difference between a good quality mattress, and a poor quality one. This is because two mattreses may appear to have a very similar spec going by what is published, but there is much more to the spec than the manufacturers and retailers often tell you.

One rough guide is that most of the big retailers charge at least double the on line stores (even when the big retailers have so called sales). So if you find a mattress in one of the big stores reduced to lets say £300, then you could probably find the equivalent on line for around £150.

As far as the number of pocket springs go, you should be looking at between 1000 and 1800 (in a king size). However, there are cheap and nasty pocket springs that don't give very good support, and there are good quality full size steel pocket springs, which give far better support. With pocket springs you don't need to get a firm mattress to give good back support. This is because pocket springs all work independently, and contour to your body. So you can actually go for the firmness you like, rather than thinking you have to go for a firmer mattress.

Also the fillings can make a big difference. The insulator pad stops the springs from pushing into the quilting. There are various qualities of insulator pad. Also the number of layers of quilting and the density of them can make a huge difference.

With memory foam, it is best to have the memory foam on top of springs. This is for two main reasons. Firstly mattresses made from memory foam on top of reflex foam can be very hot and sweaty, because air can't circulate through the spring layer to dissipate the heat from the memory foam. Secondly, reflex foam is constructed from loads of bubbles. In time these bubbles can start to burst, which can end up leaving a dip in the mattress. As far as the depth and density of memory foam goes, you should be looking for 2" depth, and a density of 60 to 70kg per m3.

Many mattresses that contain latex foam only have a very thin layer. And some only have this layer in zones. What you really need to be looking for is a full 2" deep layer. Also some manufacturers use synthetic latex, or a blend. What you need to be looking for is natural latex.

Never buy a pillow top mattress with loose fillings.

Try to buy a two sided mattress, as it will last far longer than a non turn mattress.

Thanks for the comprehensive advice, Tim.
Just one further question regarding the overall depth of the mattress. I have my eye on a 1500 pocket sprung double with 3" of memory foam topper. The overall mattress depth is 10". Does this sound OK or maybe a bit shallow for a good-quality mattress?

Tim_Deegan

wary wrote: »

Thanks for the comprehensive advice, Tim.
Just one further question regarding the overall depth of the mattress. I have my eye on a 1500 pocket sprung double with 3" of memory foam topper. The overall mattress depth is 10". Does this sound OK or maybe a bit shallow for a good-quality mattress?

Unless you like being very warm in bed I would go for 2" of memory foam rather than 3".

What is the density of the memory foam?

10" isn't too shallow, but it all depends on the other fillings, and the type of springs.

wary

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

Unless you like being very warm in bed I would go for 2" of memory foam rather than 3".

What is the density of the memory foam?

10" isn't too shallow, but it all depends on the other fillings, and the type of springs.

Thanks Tim.
Not sure, but I think the density is 65KG/M3.

Tim_Deegan

wary wrote: »

Thanks Tim.
Not sure, but I think the density is 65KG/M3.

What is the price, what size, and is it two sided?

wary

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

What is the price, what size, and is it two sided?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290446119811&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123
Price = £199.00; standard double size; appears to be just one-sided

Mob-Mat-Man

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

He has really let himself down with the description of the L'Amour, by trying to compare reflex foam to memory foam (which are the oposite in construction. Reflex foam mattresses were always regarded as cheap and nasty, hot sweaty mattresses. This hasn't changed at all. So why ruin a pocket sprung mattress by putting a layer of reflex foam on top of the springs. The only reason to do this would be to make a cheap pocket sprung mattress. So as this is more expensive than some of his other pocket sprung mattresses, it begs the question as to how low the quality is on the others.


As for the kensington.....well after the L'Amour above, I have lost all confidence in the quality of any of their low priced pocket sprung mattresses. Especially as memory foam is far more expensive than reflex foam. So what have they done to cut the cost even more??

Open letter to Tim Deegan.

I really do not appreciate your unfounded remarks above. If you are going to critique my products and ultimately pass on a degree of informed comment then please do so with some measure of integrity and well founded objection.

Your comments above are completely unjustified and totally unprofessional and I require an open apology.

John