School declined holidays and branded the kids truants

poet123

AnthonyUK wrote: »

LEA's and schools are being encouraged to tighten up on termtime holidays so in future it could well be frowned on and punished by fines and/or prison/loss of school places etc for anyone who does, it isn't an automatic right for a parent to get 10 days for a termtime holiday and it's up to discretion by schools and LEA's whether it is allowed or not, and it's right parents are punished for blantant ignorance and disregard for it where parents transgress those rules and do it regardless. I'm with the schools and LEA's on this NOT the rights of the parents!

Well done, you see it is possible to debate in a polite manner, even when you are putting across a POV others disagree with. Of course, you are entitled to your viewpoint. Fyi the discretion lies with the Headteacher, not the LEA, and the current guidelines are posted further up the thread, perhaps you could link to where the changes are going to be made and by whom?

AnthonyUK

The Labour govt actually wanted LEA's and schools to tighten up when they were in power and they were the ones who introduced fines and punishments for those who take kids on holiday in termtime.

AnthonyUK

If the school has refused permission to take 10 days holiday and won't give it and the LEA agrees then you DON'T go on holiday simple as that.

egyptiangirl

Teacher view

(I started to read and then skipped to the end as I HAD to post!)

There are several issues here of which some people aren't directly sticking too i.e snow - we get sued by parents as soon as there is any harm caused by snow. It is irrelevant to this 'debate'.

Taking kids out of education for 2 weeks

Unless it is exam time or an essential part of the curriculum I personally cannot see any harm in this, especially if the parents are responsible enough to ask teachers for the work their children missed to catch up on. My best mate went to Oz for 2 months when we were 9, funnily enough it hasn't impacted her education or life at all ( apart from a fantastic experience!). Remember some countries don't start formal education til 7.

The price of holidays
Welcome to my world! I NEVER get to book at cheap holiday! As said, tour operators determine prices by the holidays. Nothing we can do. Although the new academies may start to change this. They can decide their own year structure and this may start to change prices during the year.

Educational value of holidays

Why are people trying to justify this? Travel in itself is a life learning event. Don't bother saying 'we will look at the history of x'. Some holidays are just sitting on the beach and by the pool. So what?!

Fines
At my school you do not automatically get fined for unauthorised absences. The EWO only picks up on regular non-attendence and I often hear ours saying 'they're on holiday....next'. They really only talk about those that are school refusers. Unless your school has made its own policy on this? I can imagine from the savings you will make on the holiday itself, the fine is worth it for the savings made!

Ofsted
If a school has outstanding teaching, outstanding pastoral systems, outstanding results they will not 'fail' due to a few unauthorised absences. They may if everyone starts doing it. If everyone says 'it's ok for me' the school will be in trouble.

The OH issue

Irrelvant to me but sounds foolish!

The whole issue
Having said everything above, why are you then worried/upset? You've made the decision to go, so you will be going regardless? No member of the school or LEA is going to change your mind and they will never say 100% it OK ( some may be empathetic but still have to do their job). You need to get over it or it will ruin the holiday itself!

Do the decent thing. Show some respect to the school and us teachers that work bl**dy hard and ask for the work they'll be missing. Then you can holiday knowing you've done everything you can.

vodkachick68

egyptiangirl wrote: »

Teacher view

(I started to read and then skipped to the end as I HAD to post!)

There are several issues here of which some people aren't directly sticking too i.e snow - we get sued by parents as soon as there is any harm caused by snow. It is irrelevant to this 'debate'.

Taking kids out of education for 2 weeks

Unless it is exam time or an essential part of the curriculum I personally cannot see any harm in this, especially if the parents are responsible enough to ask teachers for the work their children missed to catch up on. My best mate went to Oz for 2 months when we were 9, funnily enough it hasn't impacted her education or life at all ( apart from a fantastic experience!). Remember some countries don't start formal education til 7.

The price of holidays
Welcome to my world! I NEVER get to book at cheap holiday! As said, tour operators determine prices by the holidays. Nothing we can do. Although the new academies may start to change this. They can decide their own year structure and this may start to change prices during the year.

Educational value of holidays

Why are people trying to justify this? Travel in itself is a life learning event. Don't bother saying 'we will look at the history of x'. Some holidays are just sitting on the beach and by the pool. So what?!

Fines
At my school you do not automatically get fined for unauthorised absences. The EWO only picks up on regular non-attendence and I often hear ours saying 'they're on holiday....next'. They really only talk about those that are school refusers. Unless your school has made its own policy on this? I can imagine from the savings you will make on the holiday itself, the fine is worth it for the savings made!

Ofsted
If a school has outstanding teaching, outstanding pastoral systems, outstanding results they will not 'fail' due to a few unauthorised absences. They may if everyone starts doing it. If everyone says 'it's ok for me' the school will be in trouble.

The OH issue

Irrelvant to me but sounds foolish!

The whole issue
Having said everything above, why are you then worried/upset? You've made the decision to go, so you will be going regardless? No member of the school or LEA is going to change your mind and they will never say 100% it OK ( some may be empathetic but still have to do their job). You need to get over it or it will ruin the holiday itself!

Do the decent thing. Show some respect to the school and us teachers that work bl**dy hard and ask for the work they'll be missing. Then you can holiday knowing you've done everything you can.

Well said!! I think your post sums it up for all us hardworking parents who wish to take a holiday in term-time and not be treated as if we had committed a murder lol!! As i have said in previous posts as long as the child has had good attendance then i don't see a problem.

easy

And after all this, I have been given a letter by my son's school, to say that we may collect our children from school at 2:30 tomorrow, so they can watch the football match on TV at home !!!!

Which gives me a HUGE problem, having to leave my work early (at less than 48 hrs notice), and allowing the children to think school can be cancelled for something as trivial (and uneducational) as a flaming footy match (which 90%+ of the population have the technology to record anyway).

I am SOOOOOOO angry ....

Murphy_The_Cat

egyptiangirl wrote: »

Teacher view

(I started to read and then skipped to the end as I HAD to post!)

There are several issues here of which some people aren't directly sticking too i.e snow - we get sued by parents as soon as there is any harm caused by snow. It is irrelevant to this 'debate'.


Do the decent thing. Show some respect to the school and us teachers that work bl**dy hard and ask for the work they'll be missing. Then you can holiday knowing you've done everything you can.

Hi egyptiangirl
I always thought the 'school will get sued if Johnny falls in the snow' claim was a fairy tale - I thought that it was the fear of falling foul of H&S rule interpretations, and its easier to take a sledgehammer to a nut that applying a tadge of common sense, or have I got it wrong.

As regards showing the teachers/school some respect, I'll go along with that, as in most cases, most of the time, they by and large get it right - but its the times that (IMO) they don't get it right, that rankle :beer:

p.s the children are having to take an extra says holiday next year, at some stage, date to be announced, to accomodate a classroom move - which is odd, as noone is in the school for 2/7ths of the week, and the move is going to take less than a day to do !

holidaysforme

Very interesting post! My dd's school was closed earlier in the year for almost a week, because of the '. snow'. In my opinion, and the opinion of many other parents, this was an overeation to the point of lunacy.
Personally, I and my dd saw it as a great adventure,- being out in the snow, making snowman, sledging etc, but there were many parents who were forced to take time off work because of this.
As far as i'm concerned the school showed scant regard for those parents, not even bothering to inform them, sometimes , not till they showed up at the school gates in the morning.
I'm all for respect, but it works both ways!
I would have no hesitation in removing my dc for a week every year in term time. to go on holiday.
Have done this year, and will do the same next year. Happy holidays everyone:)

jtr2803

I don't normally venture into this part of the forum but after reading some of the posts and the comments I wanted to offer my personal opinion - please note this is MY PERSONAL OPINION.

I have a daughter who is nine, she is a polite, well mannered, caring, affectionate and behaves perfectly at school. She is always praised by the teaching staff and has never once been a source of disruption, she does her homework on time and is in all senses a model student.

I am taking her to Centreparcs for a week at the beginning of February next year regardless of whether her absence is authorised or not. I belive the head teacher to be very reasonable in regards to term time holidays so don't believe this will be a problem but should she say she will not authorise it I will go anyway and if need be, I will pay the truancy fine.

I totally and completely understand the need for regulations regarding holidays and acknowledge that a good education is key to my daughters success but I also acknowledge the need for her to experience different things and spend QUALITY time with her closest family. I have chosen this week because it will be her last year before Seconday school (in which I wont taker her out of school) and because yes, price is an issue.

I don't believe that she will suffer academically from this break. A number of people have made comments on disruption to the rest of the class and again, I recognise this issue. However, there are currently two children in my daughters class who need constant one to one supervision for challenging behaviour. They are constantly violent towards other pupils, disruptive to the entire class, use vile language and should be in a more specialist environment BUT the LEA says that they should attempt integration into a mainstream school. It is so bad that even the teacher has gone sick and is expected to be off for at least a month with stress. I know this because my mum works in the school as a teaching assistant and is assigned to one of the children with challenging behaviour. Is my planned one week holiday going to be that disruptive in light of this? I personally don't think so.

Like I say, this is my personal opinion and reflects my personal circumstances but I do believe that parents should act with their childs best interests at heart whether that means taking a weeks holiday in term time or not.

OP if you are still reading take your children away and let them have an amazing time, they will treasure it forever!

AnthonyUK

Well all you parents who are prepared to ignore LEA's and schools and go on holiday regardless I hope you lose your child school places or even face a prison sentence or be on tag for it because that is what some LEA's are doing to parents who ignore schools and LEA's by going over their heads to take kids on holiday in school termtime periods, serves you right! It HAS happened round the country on one or two occasions to parents who have done because like I say some LEA's are tightening up so much on this that's it's impossible to do so without a severe punishment on the parents for going against what you have been told FULL STOP. Would you take your on holiday in school term time in an LEA area which implements these draconian measures if you knew it would hurt you as a parent knowing that the threat of a prison sentence or being on tag or losing your children's school places hangs over your head? Think about it because that is what some LEA's threaten on parents who go over school's and LEA's wherewithal and take them on holiday in termtime regardless of being told "you can't", by the schools and the LEA's.