Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

James

I wonder if crooks have acquired the PINs of these victims before they snatch their purses or bags:

Women warned: watch out for purse snatchers

http://www.hertsessexnews.co.uk/news/mercury/hertfordshire_mercury/2006/04/07/women%20warned%20watch%20out%20for%20purse%20snatchers.lpf

angchris

i work as a cashier and the amount of old folks that ask me to tap their pin in for them cos they havent got their glasses or people that recite their pin under their breath as they tap it in is astonishing, i know several peoples pin off by heart because they do it all the time! its a good job im honest but there are plenty out there that arent, it just makes me wonder sometimes whether chip + pin really is a good idea, i personally prefer the cards with id piccys on as well so theres no doubting who the real owner is.

moggsy

angchris wrote:

i work as a cashier and the amount of old folks that ask me to tap their pin in for them cos they havent got their glasses or people that recite their pin under their breath as they tap it in is astonishing, i know several peoples pin off by heart because they do it all the time! its a good job im honest but there are plenty out there that arent, it just makes me wonder sometimes whether chip + pin really is a good idea, i personally prefer the cards with id piccys on as well so theres no doubting who the real owner is.

Photo ID can be forged, Chip & Pin cards cannot.

As for knowing someones PIN - you've still got to get the card off of them which is a far less subtle crime than simply skimming a swipe card.

angchris

you would be surprised how many people come in with their other halfs/boyfriends or flatmates card and spend on it with chip and pin, if they know the pin more often than not they get away with it because you have no need to look at the name on the card nowadays, if i catch them doing this i automatically refuse the sale these are the loopholes that i find most annoying because its all very well saying to your mate to nip down to the shops for me heres my pin but what happens in 6 months time when your mate is skint and desperate?? putting id pictures on cards as well as chip n pin is a much better idea so i can tell at a glance from the back of the card whilst its in the machine if they are the true owner

steam_dan

I filled up with petrol in an Esso garage in Fareham over the Easter weekend and when I paid by credit card I was asked to sign.

I looked at the cashier and said " I have to sign? No chip and pin! ". The cashier responded with a "No" and a bewildered look. I duly signed the slip.

My wife, who travels to Fareham regularly advised me that she has had to do the same at this particular garage on several previous occasions. It seems that they do not have chip and pin installed in this particular garage.

As the garage is advertising that they accept credit cards are they not obliged to install chip and pin?
What are my rights? Could I have refused to sign on the grounds that the garage is not taking the necessary steps to prevent my details from being used fraudently?

Your thoughts would be appreciated?

King_Of_Fools

steam_dan wrote:

I filled up with petrol in an Esso garage in Fareham over the Easter weekend and when I paid by credit card I was asked to sign.

I looked at the cashier and said " I have to sign? No chip and pin! ". The cashier responded with a "No" and a bewildered look. I duly signed the slip.

My wife, who travels to Fareham regularly advised me that she has had to do the same at this particular garage on several previous occasions. It seems that they do not have chip and pin installed in this particular garage.

As the garage is advertising that they accept credit cards are they not obliged to install chip and pin?
What are my rights? Could I have refused to sign on the grounds that the garage is not taking the necessary steps to prevent my details from being used fraudently?

Your thoughts would be appreciated?

You have no rights as to how your credit card is used. You would find that your credit card can be used with a signature in most counties around the world as Chip & PIN is much more advanced in the UK. In fact you could use your card in many petrol stations, supermarkets and rail stations in the UK without a PIN and without a signature!

M_Thomson

steam_dan wrote:

I filled up with petrol in an Esso garage in Fareham over the Easter weekend and when I paid by credit card I was asked to sign.

I looked at the cashier and said " I have to sign? No chip and pin! ". The cashier responded with a "No" and a bewildered look. I duly signed the slip.

My wife, who travels to Fareham regularly advised me that she has had to do the same at this particular garage on several previous occasions. It seems that they do not have chip and pin installed in this particular garage.

As the garage is advertising that they accept credit cards are they not obliged to install chip and pin?
What are my rights? Could I have refused to sign on the grounds that the garage is not taking the necessary steps to prevent my details from being used fraudently?

Your thoughts would be appreciated?

Don't worry about it at all. What has happened that with the introduction of Chip and Pin in this case is that the retailer is the one that loses out. Before when there was just signature, the bank bore the loss when there was any fraud. With Chip and Pin, if the card has been used fraudulently and the retailer has either not upgraded to Chip and Pin or lets you sign when they have a chip and pin terminal, then they are liable for the loss. There will have to be an option to sign on all UK cards for the forseeable future, for when we travel abroad to places like the US where there is no chip and pin. And also so we can use retailers here that do not have Chip and Pin technology. Also retailers will have to have tills where you can sign for overseas cardholders that travel here. As well as cardholders in the UK who have Chip And Signature cards.

One thing that has not been tested though and has been discussed at great length on this board, is when fraud is commited using a chip and pin card, will the bank hold the cardholder liable for any fraud, as they could turn around and say that we as the cardholder has been negiligent, as we must have given away our pin. This does worry me as the burden of proof is now on me as the cardholder.

moggsy

M_Thomson wrote:

One thing that has not been tested though and has been discussed at great length on this board, is when fraud is commited using a chip and pin card, will the bank hold the cardholder liable for any fraud, as they could turn around and say that we as the cardholder has been negiligent, as we must have given away our pin. This does worry me as the burden of proof is now on me as the cardholder.

The banks will treat this in the same way as they treat fraud at the cash machine so Chip & Pin doesn't introduce any new problems in this area. Chip & Pin cards are however far more secure and so the chances of someone using your PIN (without you somehow giving it to them along with your card) is extremely remote to say the least.

Altarf

moggsy wrote:

Chip & Pin cards are however far more secure and so the chances of someone using your PIN (without you somehow giving it to them along with your card) is extremely remote to say the least.

Funniest thing I have heard all day. PINs being secure, go on tell another one.

MPH80

Funniest thing I have heard all day. PINs being secure, go on tell another one.

He didn't say PINs were secure - he said they were MORE secure.

In the old days if I want to nick your card and utilise it ... all I had to do was steal it (or even just skim it), spend 2 seconds practising your signature and then use it.

If I want to steal your card now ... I have to shoulder surf you ... make sure I get every digit of your pin ... I can't skim it because of the chip ... so I have to steal it, without you noticing, and then go and use it.

So instead of just one step - I have to do two.

That's always going to be more secure.

M.