Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

James

Here's room for thought.

Plastic Card Fraud:
(Latest Card Fraud Statistics):

Counterfeit cards £123m (down 2%)
Card stolen or lost £118.8m (up 11%)
Card not present £138.8m (up 29%)
Card lost or stolen in the post £61.2m (up 51%)
ID fraud £37m (up 66%)
Source: Association of Payment Clearing Services (Apacs), year to end of June

APACS omitted Fraud at ATMs, I wonder if this was overlooked?


ID Theft shows the largest increase 66%, here follows some tips:

The Industries Advice to Consumers:
http://www.cifas.org.uk/press_20040705.asp

Taking Identity Fraud in Hand:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/3574779.stm

Does such a system work? Will it catch crooks?
http://www.caithness.org/fpb/october2002/thumbprints.htm

http://www.south-wales.police.uk/fe_news_w/news_details.asp?newsid=169


James

Galstonian

With the £ changes inserted:

Counterfeit cards £123m (down 2%) -£2.51m
Card stolen or lost £118.8m (up 11%) +£11.77m
Card not present £138.8m (up 29%) +£31.2m
Card lost or stolen in the post £61.2m (up 51%) +£20.67m
ID fraud £37m (up 66%) +£14.71m



If C&P delivers what is promised it should reduce counterfeiting and lost and stolen use. I'm not sure how it tackles not present, postal theft and ID fraud. The total cost is approximately the same for both groups but the alarming thing is the increase in the latter - more than £65m as opposed to under £10m.

Disturbing reading.

James

Fraud at ATMs (where PINs are required) according to APCAS stood at £29.1 million in 2002. This rose by a massive 25% to £39 milllion in 2003.

Card Fraud The Facts 2004

http://www.cardwatch.org.uk/pdf_files/cardfraudfacts2004.pdf


James

Robert_Sterling_3

That would be a rise of 34% IMHO.

James

My error, you are absolutely right. I apologise.
James

Robert_Sterling_3

OK Ta

James

Maybe some other readers will reconsider having a PIN when the three largest percentage increases in fraud type are:

1. ID Fraud up 66%
2. Lost or stolen in the post up 51%
3. Fraud at ATMs up 34%

Still want a PIN with your credit card?

James

student100

James, where is the relationship between any of those three types of fraud and having a Chip and PIN card?

If the banking industry wanted to, they could easily reduce lost/stolen in post fraud by using secure/recorded delivery (why don't they anyway?). ID fraud is when fraudsters apply for cards in other people's names, having Chip and PIN versus Signature is not going to affect this. And ATMs have always used PINs so you can't say this fraud increase is due to Chip and PIN.

However, Chip and PIN may reduce "card lost or stolen" fraud (it's easy to steal a card and fake the signature, perhaps not so easy to steal a card AND the PIN). Chip and PIN will defintiely reduce counterfeit card fraud as Chip cards are a lot more secure and can't be cloned as easily as swipe cards.

James

James, where is the relationship between any of those three types of fraud and having a Chip and PIN card?

ID Fraud – Someone getting hold of a card & PIN in your name will never be challenged. The chances of catching an ID thief is low. These crooks can use a card until its blocked, or until the victim receives an unwelcome letter from a debt collector. The police correctly predict that C&P will see an increase in this type of fraud.

Lost or stolen in the post. C&P will generate approx 130 million new cards, many of these are being hit already. PINs too I expect will disappear. Lots of cardholders will be sent PINs that they never even wanted in the first instance.

Fraud at ATMs. Cannot happen if you’ve not got a PIN. Every single credit card thats not Chip & Signature (PIN supressed) can be used at ATMs.

Picked this up from MoneyBox. The topic was “Cheque Clearing Shock”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/3727162.stm

This was one listeners comment: (I included it for the Chip & PIN content)
A couple of months ago I filled up my car at a garage outside Swansea only to have my cheque refused. The manageress said the banks were returning cheques even when guaranteed with the cheque guarantee card.

Is this a ploy by the banks to discontinue the use of cheques?

Geraldine
I checked with my bank and it said they had not heard of such a thing. If this is the case, one would understand why businesses might not want to accept cheques, but what about people who do not want to use a credit card or cannot get one? What about payments by post?
Is this a ploy by the banks to discontinue the use of cheques?
I do not use a credit card or my debit card having never understood how it can possibly be safe to give the number to complete strangers.
Chip and Pin is supposed to make debit cards safer, but will it? We are inundated with warnings about credit card fraud and identity theft, using key loggers for example.
Are we going return to carrying large amounts of cash or using postal orders?
I know the banks say that if you are defrauded you will not have to pay but, if they can clear a cheque and subsequently take the money back, how can we trust them?
Those of us who manage our accounts very tightly and have small incomes could not afford to have large sums of money disappearing for months following a card fraud.
It is time the banks came clean and started a discussion with their customers.
Geraldine

Mfraser_2

Just like to point out, it's a PIN and not a PIN number. The abbeviation PIN means Personal Identification Number, therefore you can't have a Personal Identification Number Number. Also, how can a password be a word if it contains numbers?