Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

MillicentBystander

If you are looking at going for the Double Gold package then surely the Fixed To April 2018 is a no brainer for the gas and electric element of the package? In my Yorkshire region, at average consumption, it works out at just £6/mth (the Double Gold variable is just 6% cheaper, basically) more than the variable Double Gold tariff to lock down your prices for the next 4 winters! It is by far the cheapest tariff that is fixed for the next 4 winters (in my Yorkshire region the only other fixed deal that covers the next 4 Winters is the Sainsburys Fixed to March 2018 and that costs £127 per year more (so over £500 more over the course of the fix PLUS £100 in exit fees!) at average consumption.

Missy712

MillicentBystander wrote: »

If you are looking at going for the Double Gold package then surely the Fixed To April 2018 is a no brainer for the gas and electric element of the package?


Ok I will research this one too. I'm just not comfortable with locking into something for 4 years with gas/elec as that then means I'm locked into the other products (B/band; home phone and mobile for 4 yrs also. What if I experience poor levels of service from the additional 3 products during this time! My hands are then tied!


[QUOTE - In my Yorkshire region, at average consumption, it works out at just £6/mth (the Double Gold variable is just 6% cheaper, basically) more than the variable Double Gold tariff to lock down your prices for the next 4 winters!


I'm in the Yorkshire region too - Leeds. What do you mean when you say 'works out at £6 per month'? What? - the fixed tariff?? I'm unclear what you mean when you say 'the double gold variable is 6% cheaper.' Cheaper than what? Lost me a bit with this paragraph...sorry. Still trying to get my head around it all. xx
:mad:

MillicentBystander

Apologies, wrong use of word by me - by locked down I mean your energy tariff price not you! - the tariff rate is guaranteed not to increase until the end of April 2018! With regards to being 'locked in' you effectively aren't because you can switch away at any time to a new tariff/company with no exit fees payable. The comparable in length of the fix tariff from Sainsburys Energy is not only considerably more expensive but should you switch away before the end of March 2018 they would charge you £100 in exit/penalty fees.

With regard to the cost comparison of the Double Gold Variable tariff and the Double Gold Fixed to April 2018 tariff, the fixed deal costs just £71 (so £6/mth more) per year more but gives you 4 Winters at the guaranteed fixed price (it is guaranteed not to increase at all)*. Where will energy prices be in 4 year's time? Who knows but it doesn't take Einstein to work out that unless something seismic happens they will be considerably more than they are today. UW's 4 year fix is actually cheaper than EDF Fixed to March 2017 even though it lasts 13 months longer! It's also £68 per year cheaper than British Gas Fixed to March 2016 and lasts 25 months longer!*

* based on average consumption of 13500 Gas and 3200 Electricity

HTH.

Missy712

Hi MillicentBystander. Thanks for that reply. Suddenly makes perfect sense to me now. I understand what you mean...

That's good that you can walk away. I've spoken to BG and they have a range of cancellation fees for their fixed tariffs they just offered me.


[With regard to the cost comparison of the Double Gold Variable tariff and the Double Gold Fixed to April 2018 tariff, the fixed deal costs just £71 (so £6/mth more) per year more but gives you 4 Winters at the guaranteed fixed price (it is guaranteed not to increase at all)]


Right - I get your point here. Initially I was thinking surely the 'fixed' deal should work out cheaper, but as BG just explained to me, you pay slightly more for the guaranteed comfort that your energy prices wont change over the years. Takes me a while to absorb the logic of all these deals....lol.


[Where will energy prices be in 4 year's time? Who knows...]


See your point here. However who knows what the impact of 'fracking' will have on fuel supply. Gas/Elec are already experiencing pressure on supply & demand due to the population growing etc. So maybe it's best to see what's happening in the emerging market before committing to a 4yr plan, as prices of fuel could change for the better once fuel is not recognised as the most valuable commodity maybe.


Surely you can't just walk away from UW free say after 2 years when you've already reaped some benefits of a the 'fixed term savings'! I'm sure I read somewhere in the T&Cs that you would have to pay back all of the say 2 year discount you had benefited from which would be compared to the Standard Variable Rate...now I gather that might sting depending on the time period they might demand you to pay it back!


Can you tell me what the single unit rates are for UW for the D/Gold 4yr fixed and the D/Gold variable please? Also are there any discounts offered for dual fuel or direct debit or special discount fees against the tariff? This will help me to make a like for like comparison with BG and the figures they have just quoted.


These companies don't make anything simple do they!! I'm sure they like to baffle us with numbers! But I've done a lot of work around this now... so slowly all starting to make sense when I'm comparing. I felt like I actually knew what I was talking about on the phone to BG just then! My gas annual consumption is little higher than the average and my electric a little less. So it's much clearer to me now how to work out the costs based on these single unit rates of kwh.



I like this discussion thread...puts you in touch with others in the know. My family and friends are not that clued up....ssshhh, don't tell them I said that...lol


Cheers everyone for your input :T xx

Cardew

Yorkie1 wrote: »

The fuel might be cheaper if all other services are also taken from UW, but as soon as you knock them out then it gets more expensive.

However even on the 'UW Double Gold tariff' the fuel(gas and electricity) is not cheaper. As per usual, the UW guarantee of cheaper prices is worthless; it only compares against the expensive variable tariffs of the Big 6.


To illustrate with figures, for an average user(13,500kWh gas/3,200kWh electricity) in the Midlands, the cheapest tariff is £1,001 pa.


UW Double Gold is £1,122 so 11.2% more expensive.


MilicentBystander's point about the UW 2018 fix being worthy of consideration is valid - using the figures above it costs £1,181 - 18% higher than the cheapest. The conditions are:

Under the Double Gold Fixed Price v1 offer your prices are fixed until 30th April 2018. Customers signing up to this tariff must take the Double Gold bundle which includes Home Phone, Broadband, Mobile and at least one energy service. Customers must continue to take Double Gold bundle for the life of the tariff – if they cancel any services, they will automatically be transferred to the cheapest standard variable tariff they are eligible to receive at that time.

You need to take view if over a 4 year period you will more than recoup the extra you will pay over the first period of that term.

Two tariffs at £1,001(Ovo) and £1,002(FU) have a 12 month fix. so UW will cost £180 more over that 12 months.

Another tariff costing £1,045 has a fix until 30 April 2016. So UW will have cost approx. £270 more over that period. The unknown factor is what prices of other tariffs will be in April 2016. Prices for the(then) cheapest tariff will have to have risen considerably to start clawing back the £270 'deficit'.

I don't know enough about the detail of 'the Double Gold bundle which includes Home Phone, Broadband, Mobile and at least one energy service' However if UW decided after a couple of years that their gas/electricity prices were becoming attractive, could they increase the prices of the other services in the Double Gold package by a considerable margin?

If so customers would have paid extra for gas/elect the first couple of years and then be faced with paying an high increase on Broadband etc or leave UW.

MillicentBystander

The OVO and FU fixes cover you for just one Winter, of course, whereas the UW covers you for FOUR so of course it is going to be more expensive lol. Every time you change tariff you are effectively taking a gamble no matter which one you go for. But it's nice to see you are now actually regognising the Fixed to April 2018 tariff's existence. That's progress, I guess. As you are an energy 'expert', could you possibly post details of any other Fixed deal currently available that covers you for 4 winters for anything like the same outlay? TIA.

PS With regards to the other elements of the Double Gold bundle, it would be silly of UW to increase these by large amounts on account of every punter paying the exact same prices for phone line rental, BB and mobile so they would lose many of their telecoms only punters. Would never happen. At the end of the day, it's most definbitely a bundle worth considering. Not for everyone, of course. But what product is? I do find it encouraging that the first new tariff launched since the buying back of the business from npower and signing of the new 20 year supply agreement on much more favourable terms for UW is such a market leader price-wise. Hopefully a sign of things to come. It could get very interesting on here lol.

Cardew

MillicentBystander wrote: »

for UW is such a market leader price-wise.

Even for you, that is 'over the top'.


Do you agree that their gas/electricity prices are way more than the cheapest on the market?


Also that their price guarantee is a normal UW joke?


The one thing we do agree on is that any long term fix is a gamble.


Personally I wouldn't gamble on a tariff that had an 18% premium over a 12 month fix, and a 13.6% premium over a 24 month fix.


Using some back of an envelope calculations, consider if prices rose 10% every year for the next 4 years(i.e. 46.4%)


With the cheapest tariff, using the figures above, you would pay £1,001 in year 1 + £1101 in year 2 + £1211 in Year 3 + £1,332 in year 4. Thus a total of £4,645 over a 4 year period.


With the UW 2018 fix you would pay £4,724(4 x £1181)


So even if gas/electricity prices rose by 46.4% over the next 4 years you would be £79 out of pocket by taking the UW 2018 fix.


So to repeat, I don't believe the UW 2018 fix to be a good gamble, and certainly not a 'no brainer'!

= MillicentBystander If you are looking at going for the Double Gold package then surely the Fixed To April 2018 is a no brainer for the gas and electric element of the package?

Missy712

Some good points there Cardew. Bugs me why I can't do the quote box!! Makes the thread so much easier on the eye...aaargh!


Anyway, I guess when you do the maths as Cardew puts it..it certainly is a 'no brainer'. My reservations are the same as Cardew re: long term fixed tariff's. Anything could change in the market i.e. gas prices going down or tariffs becoming more competitive. See my experience below as I was on the phone to BG for 90 minutes today! Really helpful chap!


I discovered that my old 'online energy fixed deal' that's just ended was charged at 6% below the SVR (standard variable rate). So based on my personal 12mth consumption (and inc VAT; Standard charge; direct debit discount & dual fuel discount) I paid £523 for Elec and £1045 for Gas. Total of £1568.


The cheapest deal BG can now offer me is their '1yr Fixed tariff' which is 10% cheaper than the SVR. So based on the same annual calculations, it came out at £474 for Elec and £970 for Gas. Total of £1,444.


Their '2yr fixed tariff' came out slightly more expensive at ££563 for Elec and £1160 for Gas. Total of £1723.


So my analysis there is that I will actually pay £124 less this year than I did last year with BG based on my same annual consumption. So in this scenario, kinda good to shop around on an 'annual' basis. Stiff competition can also mean more competitive prices for us the consumer.:j


At least I'm fully fore-armed and fore-warned for when this UW distributor comes round tomorrow.


My BG telephone man advised me to consider 5 key facts when comparing prices:
- KWh consumption;
- Standing charge (which recently has had a price increase);
- Unit rate;
- Breakdown of discounts applied;
- and VAT.
Only then can I make a like by like true comparison.


He was so helpful bless him! :A xx

MillicentBystander

Cardew wrote: »

Even for you, that is 'over the top'.


Do you agree that their gas/electricity prices are way more than the cheapest on the market?


Also that their price guarantee is a normal UW joke?


The one thing we do agree on is that any long term fix is a gamble.


Personally I wouldn't gamble on a tariff that had an 18% premium over a 12 month fix, and a 13.6% premium over a 24 month fix.


Using some back of an envelope calculations, consider if prices rose 10% every year for the next 4 years(i.e. 46.4%)


With the cheapest tariff, using the figures above, you would pay £1,001 in year 1 + £1101 in year 2 + £1211 in Year 3 + £1,332 in year 4. Thus a total of £4,645 over a 4 year period.


With the UW 2018 fix you would pay £4,724(4 x £1181)


So even if gas/electricity prices rose by 46.4% over the next 4 years you would be £79 out of pocket by taking the UW 2018 fix.


So to repeat, I don't believe the UW 2018 fix to be a good gamble, and certainly not a 'no brainer'!

The only reason I suggested it was a no brainer was that it appeared Missy712 was going to take the Double Gold bundle anyway with the variable tariff and in such a circumstance taking the fixed deal instaed would indeed be a no brainer.

And my claim regarding the fixed deal being a 'market leader price-wise' is 'over the top'? I've already asked you to provide the name of a fixed deal that covers the next 4 Winters that is cheaper than the UW one and you have failed to do so. Until you come up with one, my claim that the UW fix is a 'market leader price-wise' is entirely justified. The only other fixed deal that covers the next 4 Winters is £127 per year (plus £100 exit fees) more expensive than the UW fix at average consumption in my (Yorkshire) area. Over to you...

Missy712, I would check the price of the BG fixes by using a comparison site and not solely relying on the word of a BG employee. Certainly from the figures I have seen whilst researching this even the 2 year fix is actually considerably more expensive than the 4 year UW fix (to the tune of £68 per year plus those pesky exit fees). And their Fixed to Feb 2015 tariff doesn't actually cover you for one whole Winter let alone 4! British Gas' tariff prices are not very competitive at the moment.

Cardew

MillicentBystander wrote: »

I've already asked you to provide the name of a fixed deal that covers the next 4 Winters that is cheaper than the UW one and you have failed to do so..

You really clutch at straws!


'Market leader price wise' by your definition is a 'market' consisting of two tariffs of which UW is the cheaper.


I have asked you several questions:


Do you think the latest UW 'price guarantee' is just a joke or a genuine guarantee?


Do you agree that UW gas and electricity for the average customer to be hugely more expensive?


Do you feel that the UW fixed to 2018 tariff is a good gamble - given my figures above?


Do you dispute my figures above?