Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Lady_Python

Jeanetteathome wrote: »

Well I could buy a Kleeneze jacket and trousers to go out in! Something else to spend our fortune on!

It would probably leak

kd1975

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

It's such a common story - and this is the kind of story refuted by Kleeneze as *Kleenze works it's people that don't*, they didn't **see the opportunity** .

You do hear this so many times

Peter_Pan

It all depends what you are looking for and how much the rewards mean to you.
Some people would rather work part time for an extra income with an employer and in return for the regular extra income you give them your time and are commited to certain hours etc probably with no flexibility and no chance of increasing that income.
Some people though may want the flexibility and freedom and would rather take several months of putting in more effort than reward to earn an extra income further down the line and have freedom and flexibility and the ability to do more and earn more if they choose to.

Down to individuals choice.

Lady_Python

Peter_Pan wrote: »

It all depends what you are looking for and how much the rewards mean to you.
Some people would rather work part time for an extra income with an employer and in return for the regular extra income you give them your time and are commited to certain hours etc probably with no flexibility and no chance of increasing that income.
Some people though may want the flexibility and freedom and would rather take several months of putting in more effort than reward to earn an extra income further down the line and have freedom and flexibility and the ability to do more and earn more if they choose to.

Down to individuals choice.

I have to agree with you on this one up to a point.

There is a lot of flexibility working for yourself but let's not forget there is a downside too when selling direct to the public (I'm saying selling here as opposed to recruiting).

You get poor sales, your commission is poor and if you have to buy books etc., that can knock out what little commission you have made.

If everything goes pear-shaped you can find yourself in a real mess. Try getting benefits if you have been self-employed. Some years ago my husband took very ill. He was self-employed at the time. It took months to get minimum benefits - Income Support at the bottom level. He had to cash in a small pension just to keep the roof over our heads. That, of course, means that when he does reach retirement age the lump sum (which wasn't very big anyway) is already gone. He ended up defying doctor's orders and going back to work, albeit in a different job. The irony was, despite paying taxes for 30 odd years, we got virtually nothing. Very sore point even to this day.

Being self-employed, you don't get paid holidays or sick leave either so you have to take that into account.

You need to submit tax returns and need to remember to keep every receipt for items bought for your business. I don't know how many times I've forgotten to keep receipts. You also need to keep good records. If you earn enough, having a good accountant helps - a lot - especially if it's one who hates the taxman A good accountant can save you a fortune in tax.

On the upside, as you say, you have flexibility. You can't sack yourself either

I worked part-time in an office until a few months ago. My boss withheld my wages for 4 days and when I protested about it, he sacked me. I did, however, get my wages. As it happened, I'd had enough of the job anyway. I learned a couple of weeks ago, said boss upset one of the heirachy and got sacked himself. What goes around comes around LOL.

Only snag was, at my age (mid 50s) getting another job, especially in this economic climate proved impossible. I applied for jobs and didn't even get to the interview stage.

Being at home was OK to start with but I got bored quite quickly and I didn't like not having an income of my own. Hubby is good but I still like to retain my own independence.

So, I decided to give Avon a try. So far, so good. I'm building up a reasonable customer base, have done really well in sales - hit the higher commission target again and I still have more orders to come in. I do enjoy being my own boss, especially with a product I've been using for decades.

Even my hubby says I've become much more confident and happy. I'm even surprising myself!

There is a lot to be said for working for yourself. You seem to have found your niche with Kleeneze. I'm hoping I've found my niche with Avon but it's very early days yet.

I'm certainly enjoying it and if you enjoy what you do, it really makes it worthwhile.

I do think that people need to be realistic and realise that things won't happen overnight. It does take a lot of hard work no matter what you sell.

The difference between Kleeneze and Avon is that with Kleeneze the earnings were hyped to the hilt. It is sold on a dream. For many, if not most, that dream quickly becomes a nightmare. Years ago, Kleeneze probably did give good earning potential but latterly, because there are so many agents all dropping in the same area, the competition is very high. At least with Avon you get set territories. That system is not perfect, I've already had two poachers but these were dealt with with a couple of phonecalls. Just two new reps who hadn't had the system explained to them properly. These things happen.

Avon don't promise the moon and the stars. They are much more realistic. There isn't the big financial outlay that you have with Kleeneze either and their products are competitively priced, often cheaper than that in the shops and often of much higher quality.

I start training as a Sales Leader next year and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Morethanconcerned

Peter_Pan wrote: »

It all depends what you are looking for and how much the rewards mean to you.
Some people would rather work part time for an extra income with an employer and in return for the regular extra income you give them your time and are commited to certain hours etc probably with no flexibility and no chance of increasing that income.
Some people though may want the flexibility and freedom and would rather take several months of putting in more effort than reward to earn an extra income further down the line and have freedom and flexibility and the ability to do more and earn more if they choose to.

Down to individuals choice.

But in reality it more often means people working really long hours for little or no money with the vague idea that in the future they may get lucky and recruit someone who stays long enough to earn them money. And LUCK is what it is - all the flim flam about positive thinking and mental hope is all guff put out by uplines at pricey seminars and on CD's sold to the distributors.

A retail only business will never earn even minimum wage after all the costs are taken off , some might sya they can do it but even with good months there are bad and of course holidays and sick pay aren't paid.

The way to this *income* is through recruiting others - but don't tell them about the hassle and cost of actually doing catalogues , that they could work at it for months and never break even but be told by uplines that it's their attitude and that Kleeneze Works it's people that don't. They could try recruiting others to top up thier bonuses but the cost and hassle of sponsoring - 9 out of 10 drop out , and thats AFTER all the costs of recruiting them in the first place.

Only a tiny and I mean tiny percentage ever get to the dizzy heights told in the brochures and videos, few will ever get all this residual income they talk about, and if they do they won't have been sitting idley while they got it , they all work morning noon and night at kleeneze, they can NEVER let it go or it will all come tumbling down, they NEED to keep recruiting or there will be no one to actually put out the books to get the orders to pay all the bonuses.

I could find several places all over the internet of people waffling how they make £3500 a month and how as a couple they've given up work - but £3500 is just 42K a year ( and the £3500 os their *best* cheque) **if** they got the 3.5K each month thats 21 K each , given the costs, Tax , NI to do all this and the ongoing cost plus the lack of holiday pay means averaging out they most liekly get less than 14K - remember again , it's all supposed they get £3500 EVERY month , that could drop to 2.5K or less , they'll only show the BEST cheque. Suddenly it's explained why they never seem to actually have a great lifestyle or a nice car , plus being self employed on less than 25K as a couple they won't even get benefits to top them up!

The only people who should go any where near this are those that are prepared to gamble All their savings and time and energy for years and years, possibly to lose all of it.

One thing is for sure FREEDOM is something you'll NEVER have with Kleeneze , it takes ALL your spare time to never even break even.

Jeanetteathome

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

Only a tiny and I mean tiny percentage ever get to the dizzy heights told in the brochures and videos, few will ever get all this residual income they talk about, and if they do they won't have been sitting idley while they got it , they all work morning noon and night at kleeneze, they can NEVER let it go or it will all come tumbling down, they NEED to keep recruiting or there will be no one to actually put out the books to get the orders to pay all the bonuses.

I could find several places all over the internet of people waffling how they make £3500 a month and how as a couple they've given up work - but £3500 is just 42K a year ( and the £3500 os their *best* cheque) **if** they got the 3.5K each month thats 21 K each , given the costs, Tax , NI to do all this and the ongoing cost plus the lack of holiday pay means averaging out they most liekly get less than 14K - remember again , it's all supposed they get £3500 EVERY month , that could drop to 2.5K or less , they'll only show the BEST cheque. Suddenly it's explained why they never seem to actually have a great lifestyle or a nice car , plus being self employed on less than 25K as a couple they won't even get benefits to top them up!

One thing is for sure FREEDOM is something you'll NEVER have with Kleeneze , it takes ALL your spare time to never even break even.

I've seen plenty of these *income* cheques - always before any costs, always their *best* cheques too, often many months out of date. Given the massive variations in income with people dropping out and joining the REAL cheques are massively different , Many Golds hit gold but can't keep it there as people drop out.

The thing is at meetings these people are rolled out as success stories or like some I've seen we'll have them giving inspirational talks to much clapping and cheering. They'll show income cheques and say they've given up work but when you scratch the surface you find they only worked part time and after costs now only get nare minimum wage. All this for almost 7 day a week working too, all chasing dreams of some guaranteed income in the future.

There are various pitfalls in the royalty scheme too, it's extremely complex and few retailiers understand it, they all have this idea that once they reach a level they'll just get paid to sit and do nothing. It certainly doesn't work like this.

GoldnBroke

Very interesting, it is hard work I joined two years ago, started by putting out 600 books a week, lost a lot in the beginning to the weather and non returns, I hit the 13% bonus level in my first 4 weeks earnt about £460. and have maintained that ever since biggest cheque was £770 with the January sale book and new seasons main books. Started building a team people drop out almost as fast as they sign up. Made it to Gold but only earnt £550 that month.
Now earn the same money by just putting out 150 books each Friday to customers built up over 2 years.
To earn big money there are two things you have to do invest and persevere.
I kept all my Kleeneze costs seperate from my day to day life, with a car, phone, office equipment, car repairs and running costs, advertising, seminars, new books(the main books changer twice a year, with a cover change to each half way through. I wont say how much but of my kleeneze accounts i was due a £1500 tax rebate.
I would say it takes 3 to 5 years to earn a reasonable amount, unless you take the view and just invest in recruting and put a few books out, when you go to the seminars they all talk about the Retail. If you listen the people promoting the retail do very little to non them selves they just recrute.
With fuel so expensive and all the extras the basic 21% you earn is all eaton up, then the bonus all goes on seminars and advertising.
They build it up so high but that is for the few.
with Findel the parent company in such trouble, Kleeneze could have new masters in 2011, that could bring the pay structure tumbling down.
The idea is good but with all the recruting, my area now has 5 distributors dropping on the same streets, this drives customers away, as the older ones get confused(i have seen another 6 or so come and go in two years).
Advertising has become a pain as there are so many ads out there most people that respond have already come across Kleenze and the majority that take it up have no money to start with so soon get into trouble and walk away leaving there unpaid account as a debt to Kleeneze.
Do not be brain washed, that its easy money its not, this sector is dieing, each generation becomes more internet literate, even my 70 year old mum shops on the internet from food to the last thing was awashing machine so where will Kleeneze and Betterware go?
Merry Christmas Everyone:beer:

Peter_Pan

GoldnBroke wrote: »

Very interesting, it is hard work I joined two years ago, started by putting out 600 books a week, lost a lot in the beginning to the weather and non returns, I hit the 13% bonus level in my first 4 weeks earnt about £460. and have maintained that ever since biggest cheque was £770 with the January sale book and new seasons main books. Started building a team people drop out almost as fast as they sign up. Made it to Gold but only earnt £550 that month.
That is interesting Goldnbroke because that was our experience, we were told when we reached Gold we should be earning approx £1000 a month whereas in reality we were actually earning about £600.


Now earn the same money by just putting out 150 books each Friday to customers built up over 2 years.
To earn big money there are two things you have to do invest and persevere.
I kept all my Kleeneze costs seperate from my day to day life, with a car, phone, office equipment, car repairs and running costs, advertising, seminars, new books(the main books changer twice a year, with a cover change to each half way through. I wont say how much but of my kleeneze accounts i was due a £1500 tax rebate.
I would say it takes 3 to 5 years to earn a reasonable amount, unless you take the view and just invest in recruting and put a few books out, when you go to the seminars they all talk about the Retail. If you listen the people promoting the retail do very little to non them selves they just recrute.
With fuel so expensive and all the extras the basic 21% you earn is all eaton up, then the bonus all goes on seminars and advertising.
They build it up so high but that is for the few.
with Findel the parent company in such trouble, Kleeneze could have new masters in 2011, that could bring the pay structure tumbling down.
The idea is good but with all the recruting, my area now has 5 distributors dropping on the same streets, this drives customers away, as the older ones get confused(i have seen another 6 or so come and go in two years).
Advertising has become a pain as there are so many ads out there most people that respond have already come across Kleenze and the majority that take it up have no money to start with so soon get into trouble and walk away leaving there unpaid account as a debt to Kleeneze.
Do not be brain washed, that its easy money its not, this sector is dieing, each generation becomes more internet literate, even my 70 year old mum shops on the internet from food to the last thing was awashing machine so where will Kleeneze and Betterware go?
Merry Christmas Everyone:beer:

I think there will always be a market for brochures through doors, alot of people admit to liking having a brochure in their hands to look through, even my teenagers look through the mail order books when they come through, they are too busy doing other things on the internet than window shopping and making impulse buys.
I agree totally that people shouldn't think its easy money and i think as i have said before its the way it is sold by distributors as perhaps being easy money that is the problem. Its a simple Business in as much as you don't need experience and anyone is capable of putting brochures through doors and if the system is followed it will work given time but its not always easy.

Lots of people have seen Kleeneze brochures, sometimes 5 in the same week (as in one road we did when we were Kleeneze agents:eek::eek:) which does make it harder to find interested people in the products and i do think that most of the products you can find a lot cheaper elsewhere and we found the quality of some of the items frankly embarrassing.

If the products were better quality, that the distributors sponsoring were more honest about the work involved in building a customer base so that people wouldn't join, put books out and then quit giving Kleeneze a bad reputation in that area then Kleeneze would still stand a chance because you CAN make a useful extra income from brochures through doors, we have done it in the past with Kleeneze and are continuing to do it with our current Company.

Morethanconcerned

GoldnBroke wrote: »

Very interesting, it is hard work I joined two years ago, started by putting out 600 books a week, lost a lot in the beginning to the weather and non returns, I hit the 13% bonus level in my first 4 weeks earnt about £460. and have maintained that ever since biggest cheque was £770 with the January sale book and new seasons main books. Started building a team people drop out almost as fast as they sign up. Made it to Gold but only earnt £550 that month.
Now earn the same money by just putting out 150 books each Friday to customers built up over 2 years.
To earn big money there are two things you have to do invest and persevere.
I kept all my Kleeneze costs seperate from my day to day life, with a car, phone, office equipment, car repairs and running costs, advertising, seminars, new books(the main books changer twice a year, with a cover change to each half way through. I wont say how much but of my kleeneze accounts i was due a £1500 tax rebate.
I would say it takes 3 to 5 years to earn a reasonable amount, unless you take the view and just invest in recruting and put a few books out, when you go to the seminars they all talk about the Retail. If you listen the people promoting the retail do very little to non them selves they just recrute.
With fuel so expensive and all the extras the basic 21% you earn is all eaton up, then the bonus all goes on seminars and advertising.
They build it up so high but that is for the few.
with Findel the parent company in such trouble, Kleeneze could have new masters in 2011, that could bring the pay structure tumbling down.
The idea is good but with all the recruting, my area now has 5 distributors dropping on the same streets, this drives customers away, as the older ones get confused(i have seen another 6 or so come and go in two years).
Advertising has become a pain as there are so many ads out there most people that respond have already come across Kleenze and the majority that take it up have no money to start with so soon get into trouble and walk away leaving there unpaid account as a debt to Kleeneze.
Do not be brain washed, that its easy money its not, this sector is dieing, each generation becomes more internet literate, even my 70 year old mum shops on the internet from food to the last thing was awashing machine so where will Kleeneze and Betterware go?
Merry Christmas Everyone:beer:

All so very true and I agree with it all - Gold is the sort of marker they all want people to aspire to, it became the qualifier for the holidays when it was found not enough were getting to Bronze ( a gold with two golds in their team for those that don't know) , they had a *raffle* supposedly for high earning golds to go on Club Med 2.

The problem with gold is that once reached , keeping it is half the hassle, how many get there then never keep it? and more importantly how many then go onto Bronze- they need TWPO Golds in their team to qualify, just one and they WON'T gat any royalty bonus from them and could be seriously out of pocket. Of course many don't realise this till they are actually there.

Sadly many hard working Golds are really no further forward than when they first got there, the chances of them having two people beneath thme that have found AND RETAINED 5 - 10 people to give them gold are remote at best.

This is what gets me about those that say *I've been in 6 years and now earn 3.5K * and are at Bronze - the reality is they must have spent a FORTUNE to get and stay there, the sponoring costs alone, the literally hundreds of people they must have contacted. They'll say you have to invest in any business but if they've done iot for years and average out waht they've got - is it worth it? No it most certainly isn't , especially as there is NO guarantee that they'll still be getting that all important royatly cheque - if the people below drop out WHERE is that money coming from? This idea that once the royalties come in they can **RETIRE** is bizarre - utterly bizzare - they'll be putting out books and signing up people till they are old and grey, iof not WHO pays them?

Now the snow is here how glad am I thast I'm on holiday now till after New year?? and paid for it too! no more books to dig out of the snow or chip from frozen puddles!

Morethanconcerned

Peter_Pan wrote: »

I think there will always be a market for brochures through doors, alot of people admit to liking having a brochure in their hands to look through, even my teenagers look through the mail order books when they come through, they are too busy doing other things on the internet than window shopping and making impulse buys.
I agree totally that people shouldn't think its easy money and i think as i have said before its the way it is sold by distributors as perhaps being easy money that is the problem. Its a simple Business in as much as you don't need experience and anyone is capable of putting brochures through doors and if the system is followed it will work given time but its not always easy.

Lots of people have seen Kleeneze brochures, sometimes 5 in the same week (as in one road we did when we were Kleeneze agents:eek::eek:) which does make it harder to find interested people in the products and i do think that most of the products you can find a lot cheaper elsewhere and we found the quality of some of the items frankly embarrassing.

If the products were better quality, that the distributors sponsoring were more honest about the work involved in building a customer base so that people wouldn't join, put books out and then quit giving Kleeneze a bad reputation in that area then Kleeneze would still stand a chance because you CAN make a useful extra income from brochures through doors, we have done it in the past with Kleeneze and are continuing to do it with our current Company.

The problem we've found is that after a few years even loyal customers have bought every knick knack they are likely to ever need. If someone orders a high value item and it pushes that weeks order right up , they aren't going to order the same next time. I've had £200 orders and more - written on extra bits of paper - superb , but they don't do that *every* time you go round. Even the little £5 - £10 orders that make up the mainstay don't occur year in and out. Eventually it fades away and an area grows stale - I had a host of customers who had dropped to ordering once every 6 months and less , I needed to drop more and more books , build bigger and bigger customer bases to stay were I was.

Yes there would be blips - many ordered more at Xmas , but a dodgy product, a few out of stocks on the trot and that customer wouldn't buy again, after a while they didn't even look at the book.

It's like bailing water with a seive - you work harder and harder for less and less.

And thats just the retailing - which was meant to guarantee a basic income to fund the sponsoring.