Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Morethanconcerned

It's very different in that it doesn't rely on people recruiting others to push themselves up a slippery payplan. It doesn't require quite large costs to keep going till you might (or might not , more often not) break even and make the fortunes often promised. Avon appaers to be a well known and truted brand that many women are happy to buy from, cosmetics are a very personal thing . Kleeneze intially relied on the unsusal things it had that you couldn't get elshwere , knick knacks and the like. Now there is little in the Kleeneze book you can't buy significantly cheaper on the highstreet.

Avon isn't sold as being able to make people 100's of pounds from the off, most Avon bods start with a few books and leave it at that , I doubt any Avon go out with 200 - 300 books and saturate an area with them. Kleeneze is sold as an easy way to make money - adverts like *earn £100 - £500 a month Ft/PT* are commonplace. Having to travel further and further away from home to find customers puts hours onto a kleeneze round and even then someone el;se can start up and take that area. It's very expensive , extremely time consuming - 3 -4 times what they advertise, and the rewards are sketchy at best. The vast rewards and big incomes shown off in the form of income cheques come from big team building - 9 out of 10 drop out and it costs a fortune.

From all this Kleeneze has a terrible reputaion whereas Avon hasn't - just look at the threads here or put it in Google there are loads of disgruntled ex kleeneze people out there including some that got very high up in it.

billsavings

Peter_Pan wrote: »

This seems to be becoming an Avon thread
I'm curious and interested in what people think is better about Avon than Kleeneze?

Debbie

Perhaps also because it is a more recognised brand, with a better return policy and only £15 compared to £80 to join normally.

Ypaymore

Things are still rocky at Findel Kleeneze owners.

"HOME shopping firm Findel has admitted it has under-invested in recent years – but has still not decided whether to axe a planned move to an East Lancashire business park.
The stock market-listed company, whose headquarters is in Church, has revealed it could ask investors for £80million to tackle a debt pile of almost £340million to appease banks.
Last year, the firm, which employs hundreds across East Lancashire, revealed plans to create more than 100 jobs by taking the anchor unit at the proposed Burnley Bridge business park, off junction nine of the M65.
In its half-year results to October 1, the firm, which owns the Kleeneze and Kitbag brands, reduced pre-tax losses by 32 per cent to £15.5million on sales of £264million, down 3.5 per cent. "


http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/business/8719354.Firm__We_didn___t_invest_enough/

Lady_Python

Peter_Pan wrote: »

Why i ask Lady Python is from a retailing point of view how can Avon be better when you only get given a few streets whereas Kleeneze has no territories so yes you may come across other agents but you can also move to another area and keep moving until you find how many customers you want?
I really can't see how having an Avon territory of 100-200 houses can make a rep much money - the average figure i believe is about 1:20/25 houses will be interested and then you have brochures to buy, bags etc. We seem to have a different Avon rep every time we have a brochure through the door which isn't that often at all and then we'll have two on occasions from two different people.

If you live anywhere near me, I'd be more than happy to be your regular Avon lady

Morethanconcerned summed it up very well in his post.

I've now done both Kleeneze and Avon so I can now compare the two.

I like the fixed territory system with Avon. This week I found I had a "poacher", so a quick phone call cured the problem. New rep not understanding that the system runs by postcodes and not addresses. The street in question, I only have a few houses to do. She didn't know that and it hadn't been made clear to her (failure on the part of the ASM for that one). She will carry on with the street with the exception of "my" houses. The householders will not then get confused and fed up receiving so many books, unlike Kleeneze where householders can get swamped with anything up to 6 books or more.

There is no pressure with Avon. With Kleeneze I felt I was under pressure the whole time.

With Avon you don't have to attend monthly meetings or "sizzles" thus saving a lot of money on fuel, entry fees and the other associated very expensive stuff we were encouraged to buy not to mention no boredom factor listening to various "upline" babbling on about the same thing, meeting after boring meeting. Once you've been to two or three, the magic wears off and you come away feeling you've just wasted a whole day when you could have been doing something much more useful.

I find doing Avon is much more relaxing and enjoyable - even in this cold weather. I use Avon products myself and will say to a customer if something is good, bad or indifferent. They appreciate honesty. There is a new item on that I trialled myself last week. My opinion of it was it was useless. If I see any of my customers order it, I shall tell them what I found. It is then up to them whether they order it or not. I certainly could not recommend this particular item but would recommend another.

As for territory, if I want more streets, I just ask for them. On the streets I've currently got, I have picked up a lot of good customers and had some big orders from them. All delivered now and they were delighted.

Believing in the product you are selling helps to sell it.

When I did Kleeneze, I did buy some of the products. To be fair, some were very good. One of my favourites was the orange window cleaner. It is one I've never seen in the shops even to this day. Other products were complete and utter c**p and I felt bad selling them to people. It also used to annoy me when something was in the book for, say £6 and you could go to Poundland or the 99p shop and get exactly the same thing. OK, it was delivered to the person's door but it was still a massive rip-off.

I tried recruiting with Kleeneze too but I didn't like doing it simply because I knew, in all probability, the potential recruit was going to waste a lot of money and pack it in very soon after. I had one recruit who did stay for a few months but gave it up because it just wasn't working for her. That was no surprise. It wasn't working for me either! I just felt it was one big con, particularly the recruiting side and I stopped recruiting. I stayed with Kleeneze for just under a year after that, felt the quality of the products was getting even worse, was starting to lose customers because of it, and when I had nearly all my last order returned either because the products were broken or just didn't live up to their hype, I called it a day.

I still felt I'd failed at it and I did feel guilty at giving it up, but at the same time I felt very relieved.

I did Kleeneze full-time and it got to much for me. Many nights I was still up at 4am sorting books ready to go out. Then the deliveries. Great if people were in but there were always some you had to chase (same applies to Avon here - you'll always get one pain-in-the-neck that's never in).

There was also the constant pressure from upline to do better. You can't force people to buy and the same applies to Avon but the difference is, Avon don't pressurize you, Kleeneze does.

Ironically, after New Year I start training as a Sales Leader. Yes, that's MLM networking - but, already I have given advice to new reps and I think I would enjoy this as well as doing the retail side.

Some people might try Avon and decide it's not for them, try Kleeneze or Betterware and find that suits them better.

Perhaps the biggest thing for me (apart from liking Avon products) is I am much happier doing it, and if you are happy doing something, that rubs off on your customers or potential customers and you have more chance of selling as they pick up on your positive mood.

So, at the moment I am enjoying doing what I do which is more than I ever did with Kleeneze.

lozza1985

In theory with kleeneze you can get more sales not being limited by area, but we didnt find that, fro
160 brochures we got £20 of orders. So not worth it. Between me & oh we have approx 400 houses and we sell anywhere between £500-£800 each brochure. Costs are minimal, and I think the best reason is that the products are consumable - people will run out of make-up, shower gel etc and need to get more and once they find something they like (particularly foundations) they tend to stick with them. The products are advertised on tv, have celebrities in the brochures and the products get featured in womens magazines reviewing products. It makes it so much easier to sell - I never ordered anything from kleeneze in the time we did it as I thought everything was over priced - so how could I expect others to buy it.

Morethanconcerned

Lady Python - I'm with you there, the utter joy and freedom when you break free of Kleeneze. I did this full time , I worked harder and longer than I ever have before for nothing, I never even made minimum wage after al the costs were taken off and it was averaged out over the year. I was lucky though I got a job I'd always wanted and with good money. Now I have proper working conditions, holiday pay, sick pay and if the worst should happen redundancy pay. Being fully self employed you got none of these from Kleeneze, and I know thats a risk with all self employment but at least in other areas you can adjust and change your business to suit.

With Kleeneze I was stuck with how thye wanted it - their deliveries, timings etc. New books coming out seemingly at random times, Xams stuff getting earlier and earlier - if I didn't get mine oput I could stop some other bod starting up locally and gettin in first. New bods starting up might not be a *huge* problem when the customer base is established but even then many didn't know the difference and ordered so when I cam they didn't want anything. Rising prices meant orders fell as people just didn't order and there wasn't nothing I could do. The areas got bigger and bigger just so my income could stay the same, even then it was a pittance.

Of course I had all the bumf from people on £3500 a month but when you looked at it after all the costs to them many were only on about 15K each as a couple and no saying they'd get that every months. Just not worth the hassle - and so much nicer to not have to go out all evenings and weekends too!

Lady_Python

Morethanconcerned. Glad you got the job you always wanted. I've had some good jobs in my time but as you get older you find employers bypass you for younger people. They don't want someone in their mid 50s. Sad but all to true.

One thing having done Kleeneze in the past has done is enable me to reuse my books efficiently - and get them back, or at least most of them. I just put all my books out again tonight. They'll be back in on Sunday and out again on Monday.

I think with Kleeneze, many people, myself included got into it far too late. By the time I got into it, and possibly yourself, it had already reached saturation point.

It struck me that those who were earning a lot of money were the ones who got into it early enough to build big teams and reap the benefits.

Like I said, I'm going to give Sales Leadership a go early in the New Year. There is no sales patter to convince people they are going to earn mega-bucks. Some do, but only with hard work and perseverance. There is no payment upfront either. £15 is the start up fee which is taken in two parts of £7.50 off the first and second commission. If you exceed the HOV like I did, then the second £7.50 is waived. Your first lot of books you get from your SL so no outlay there either.

When I started with Kleeneze, not only did I pay the £120 (I think it was at that time) but was also persuaded to buy extra books. I forked out about £200 which was a lot of money especially as our finances at that time, due to serious illness in the family, were very tight.

If I'd known what was going to happen, I wouldn't have touched Kleeneze with a 10ft bargepole.

Avon is very low cost to start up and low cost to run, at least at the Rep stage. The only thing that is rigid is the day we receive our deliveries. I have a good delivery driver - you can almost set your watch by him. Other than that, you work it the way you want.

I've no doubt that will change when I start as a trainee Sales Leader next year but I'm up for the challenge and looking forward to it

lozza1985

The second part of the admin fee is only waivered in some areas that are trialing it, unfortunately my area isn't.

Lady_Python

lozza1985 wrote: »

The second part of the admin fee is only waivered in some areas that are trialing it, unfortunately my area isn't.

I must admit I was pleasantly surprised to see it had been waivered

Going to be struggling to make MOV this time though and a lot of the reps are saying the same.

Still, I've got all my books out so we'll see what comes back in tomorrow and Monday.

I also looked at doing Betterware and got as far as applying for it. However, I decided it wasn't for me when I spoke to their upline for this area.

ColinAllCars

Can we get back on thread to the core subject Kleenezee or Betterware.:D

New Kleeneze lens started on Squidoo.
http://www.squidoo.com/why-kleeneze-can-make-you-cry