Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Morethanconcerned

I was asked for some thoughts on the sponsoring side of Kleeneze, lets be really honest here - this is the way really big incomes are made in Kleeneze, not by retail no matter how hard you work. You won't make gold on retail alone, as we saw on the big post about retailing , it's next to impossible to even make minimum wage on retail alone. It costs too much and takes far too many hours - yes of course some near gold retailer will go all out in a big rush to break gold to get on a foriegn holiday but none keep it up.

When sponsoring everyone is told about the *circles* - showing you in the middle and two new people that you recruit and how their earning figures are added to yours and bonus paid on those final figures, it then goes on to show 3,4,5,6,7,8 people and how all those earnings togehter push your bonus higher and higher. It's rather confusing and even retailers with long experience get confused as to exactly how much bonus someone might get - especially if you have a big team and someone goes to gold - your bonus can drop quite dramatically if two don't go to gold at the same time , if that happens you'll be bronze if not you lose out on bonus. Confusing, but once there and the money rolls in then few care - though they should.

Hey it's so simple , the circes,the figures - just recruit 5 and get to gold , 10 and be bronze. It's so simple - why don't we all rush out and do it? read on...........

All you have to do is recruit 5 people! - first get your MLM number , EZE reach is the thing now , costs about £8 a month and means it collects the calls and the people listen to a recorded message rather than people phoning you at home.

The warm market - as they call it, friends and family. Everyone you actually know basically, this is one of the main causes of resentment among ex Kleeneze people. It's quite common to hear of people who have become estranged from their close family , friends and neighbours having recruited them and it all gone sour. When you first start out , especially if you have early success, you may be asked if you have talked to family etc about the *opportunity* - get them involved sign them up etc etc. But if it goes belly up - they realise they've paid out more than they can actually get or no one actually wants to order , then it'll be YOU they blame, if you go under too they'll still blame you for getting them signed up. 9 out of 10 people give up - so if you've signed everyone you know you'll have no freinds left.

For all that it might be best to recruit strangers, several ways to do this:- Newspaper adverts, Adverts in newsagents, flyers delivered through doors, cards left on cars or in public places like pubs clubs and resturants.posters stuck on lamposts and in busshelters or on street furniture, Kleeneze actually don't like this and warn not to do it but you see it everywhere The internet can be used - websites that people fill in an online form etc.

Newspapers - take a look in the classifieds, ""Need an extra income?"" ft/pt phone 0000000 , or something simple like that. paying by the line it could cost £60 - £100 , that would give on insert in the main evening paper, two in local free papers and perhpas one in a paper you've never heard and few read. The really big city evening papers cost more and you get less. Don't think though you'll be the only person doing this in the paper - there could be 5 or 6 others. I've done this and got NO calls, even a successful advert might get only 25 calls .

Ads in shops - 50p a week - big local bronzes get all these sorted for months at a time, try anyway, the only problem is - do you want someone actually on your *patch*? given the drop out rate you need to protect your own local round at all costs , when everyone drops out it'll be the only source of income. (keep this thought in mind) - so drive out to far ways places and put them in there, make sure you actually SEE tyhe ad put in or they pocket the cash and throw the ad away!

Flyers, poster in bustops, cards on cars - not too local, you don't want them on your doorstep. I spent days driving miles from home then putting flyers through doors all day from dawn till dusk (literally) . Depends on the area - you might get a few calls or a lot , sometimes none at all. Would it have been better to have put 200 books out instead in a new area rather than posting flyers through doors? very possibly yes. Putting cards on parked cars? on carparks - dodging security gaurds, you might get a few calls , leaving them in bars and clubs , the staff might pick them up. Doing this was suggested by my uplines up to bronze and above - anything goes, get the message out there.

But do you want loads of people doing kleeneze on your doorstep? they say it's OK but it isn't as a round contracts you'll need a more and more houses to to get the same returns for all your hard work. The bizzarre idea thast any area can support any amount of retaliers is wrong.

9 out of 10 leave kleeneze, so to get five people who do it and stick with it you'll need 50 sign ups - FIFTY , to get 10 you'll need 100 and out of that 10 only ONE will stick with it any length of time to actually make any real money for themsleves (and you) . These are the grim statistics - one of the big top leaders used a diagram of a funnel with white beads and one golden one - you have to filter all the rest to get to the gold person. Now if you are LUCKY - the word thast no one at Kleenze thinks exists - you might get that one person very quickly, the work they do and the mnoney you get will offset early losses, enabling you to buold, But if like most people your early years are recruiting people only for them to drop out straihgt aweay or after 2 orders when they see how poor it all is you'll never get anywhere. The money this all costs - the adverts, flyers, cards etc cost money and it all comnes off the top line.

Get a few people that will do it - don't tell them the bad things , the book losses, the hidden costs, the hassle of the deliveries going wrong. the fact that they could go out withb their catalogies believeing the £1 book and get 30p , when they try to recruit they have the same hassle. They drop out - the money you got is now gone and you go back to square one, you go out again , or you get more adverts, all costing time and money. You get a few more people , they drop out. You get tired of desperately lying to people - the hours it will take , the fact that *of course they'll be able to do the catalogues* when they have split shifts and only a few hours. If they were told the reality of what I was doing all day they'd NEVER sign up.

Many stay because they are too proud or stubburn to give up - they might get lucky, many just keep going till exhausted then throw in the towel. It's the making money off them and getting more befire they give up thats the key.

Lady_Python

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

Many stay because they are too proud or stubburn to give up - they might get lucky, many just keep going till exhausted then throw in the towel. It's the making money off them and getting more befire they give up thats the key.

Add to that being made to feel guilty that you've failed, feeling a total failure which knocks your confidence and the knowledge the people you thought were friends have ripped you off in more ways than one (and you find out you weren't the first to have this happen to you, and you most certainly won't be the last) and you wonder how you could have been so easily duped.

OldGreyFox

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

The car adverts are a classic - one for me to cover in my post about sposoring which I *will* get round to I promise. A few thoughts to consider - the *earn extra money * ads in the back of tatty 10 yr old motors, who thought that wouldn't get the calssic response *why don't you buy a decent car then*?

So one the other day, dont know what biz they were promoting, sign on a beaten up old tatty jamjar saying something like " Make Extra Money Now " visit xxx.loadsofwonga.xx.xx

Morethanconcerned

I wish I had taken more time over that , I wrote it over the day and edited it down now it just rambles!

In an ideal world, you'd recruit someone and they go out and do the catalogues.Remember as has been said here, the idea is that you have lots of people doing a little - the inference been that no one actually has to do any work , that every one will do about £600 of orders and that about 10 of them will give the rewards promised. The problem is it doesn't work like that , so FEW people actually sign up compared to how many inquire, and very few of them stick with it when they realise that they'll make little or no money at all. The amount of work needed to get as little as £200 a month just isn't worth it.

So what happens is they recruit loads and loads of people - so as one goes out the first time with books another two are giving up. The idea you could recruit 10 - one after another - then relax on the profit is daft. You'll need 100 recruits to get the 10 that will do it and only 1 of them will actually go anywhere with it.

So for a good solid gold , they'll have had to recruit 50+ people, of course they might have recruited just 5 and each one been perfect. Deeply unlikely.

To get to bronze they'll need to be gold then two of the people below will need to get to gold themselves - so imagine how many people will have been recruited and dropped out in that time? How many will have been contacted , *shown the opportunity* and refused? Of the team the gold has many will have tried and failed.

What does this mean? It means that in an area anyone who would be inclined to do Kleeneze has either done it, is doing it or won't do it. So along comes the new person - puts out the ads , the flyers , cards, has an expensive sign on the car - just like the uplines teach them to do , it's so easy isn't it? show them ther opportunity and they'll flock to it won't they?.

They won't , how many *presentations* must you do? how much money must you spend on ads, flyers etc - and where does the money come from? From the catalogues? I doubt it - the amount of work needed to get just a few hundred a month means you haven't the funds for either the time or the adverts. So many use savings - they'll make it all back when they get £3K a month won't they? No one in Kleeneze will ever say just how much they spend on all this - I know of plenty who are golds and getting supposedly good returns yet they don't appaer to have two pennies to rub together, no *rich* lifestyle, in fact they appaer to have poor lives, poor home life, the whole house a Kleeneze factory no quality of life. Certainly none of this *spend more time with family * they seem to have nothing for all the time and effort.

And remember they can't sit back - they need to keep building all the time, many only stick it for a few years so their team keeps falling apart . The time, effort and expense certainly aren't worth it - whats rthe point of 16K if you've worked 7 days a week and it's cost 5 K to get there? Only to go right back to square one? I know folk who left after gaining gold twice - they were called *lazy* and *not committed* .

Morethanconcerned

Lady_Python wrote: »

Add to that being made to feel guilty that you've failed, feeling a total failure which knocks your confidence and the knowledge the people you thought were friends have ripped you off in more ways than one (and you find out you weren't the first to have this happen to you, and you most certainly won't be the last) and you wonder how you could have been so easily duped.

We sussed it out very early on - they had people who they held up at meetings as being on their way to gold , it was So and so this and that , then after a few moths they wouldn't be at the latest *sizzle* and thats the last that would be heard of them.

This happened loads of time - some Xmas party they'd have a crowd of people by the next meeting there would be all new faces. An endless stream of new faces and those that did stay they never seemed to go any where , always *on the way to gold* etc but never there.

The thing is I approached it *just* as a business , I just wanted to work and get the money in but all the flam that went with the meetings and confrences, the never asking *what happened to so and so* , having to pretend at meetings for the newbies I was *part time* as opposed to working all hours all weeks.

I'm more annoyed at the loss of savings - I spent a lot of savings supporting myself as I did this , I knew it might take a few years and was prepared to give it a go but after a few years it was obviously going nowhere. I've no regrets, I couldn't care less what anyone doing Kleeneze thinks of me, I feel sorry for those so far into it they can't get out without admitting it was all going nowhere, even if they break Bronze the future could be very bleak , they'd never be able to sit back , they'll be out sponsoring and fiddling with catalogues for years to come.

Morethanconcerned

OldGreyFox wrote: »

So one the other day, dont know what biz they were promoting, sign on a beaten up old tatty jamjar saying something like " Make Extra Money Now " visit xxx.loadsofwonga.xx.xx

One thing I forgot to mention is the fact that you aren't to mention it's Kleeneze - Earn £10 - £50 an Hour FT/PT phone .....

Even when putting newspaper ads in we weren't to mention Kleeneze - **it would put people off before they had an opprotunity to see the Opportunity!**

So I used to send folk a booklet all about it then *upgrade* them to a DVD if they wwere interested, then go and see them personally. Different groups use different methods - this was the Gvain Scott method

Lady_Python

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

We sussed it out very early on - they had people who they held up at meetings as being on their way to gold , it was So and so this and that , then after a few moths they wouldn't be at the latest *sizzle* and thats the last that would be heard of them.

Oh yes. I can identify with that.

Just happened to pop into the upline one day without saying I was coming first. Surprise, surprise, they were having a "sizzle" complete with bbq. They had no option but to invite me in and join the party. Oh what a surprise, sitting there was the latest "proteges". The very ones who had been pinching my customers and lying to them. You should have seen their faces. Priceless :rotfl:

I spent the whole afternoon/evening smiling sweetly but glaring at the same time. It really was fun watching them all squirm - oh, and I had a good feed

Morethanconcerned

Hilarious though as you aren't ever meant to ask what happened to XYZ!

Golds and bronzes would drag me and my wife upto new people and get us to tell them how much our last cheque was, what could you say? start telling them how much it all cost and the factb that last month I got half that but had the same bills?

In an ironic twist a new Betterware man delivered a book , I saw a bloke walk past the window and thought it the postman, then later found the book. It's a different bloke each time round here, an awful area for any catalogues. I wish I had seen him he could have had a hot coffee as it's artic weather here! My heart goes out to anyone struggling through the bad weather delivering cataloges or searching through snow for ones to collect.

I note too that this morning the classic Squidoo page *Kleeneze can make you cry* has dissappeared. In it's place some bod says he's going to put an *unbiased* reveiw of Kleeneze , this should be good to see. Not.

Peter_Pan

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

Hilarious though as you aren't ever meant to ask what happened to XYZ!

Golds and bronzes would drag me and my wife upto new people and get us to tell them how much our last cheque was, what could you say? start telling them how much it all cost and the factb that last month I got half that but had the same bills?

In an ironic twist a new Betterware man delivered a book , I saw a bloke walk past the window and thought it the postman, then later found the book. It's a different bloke each time round here, an awful area for any catalogues. I wish I had seen him he could have had a hot coffee as it's artic weather here! My heart goes out to anyone struggling through the bad weather delivering cataloges or searching through snow for ones to collect.

I note too that this morning the classic Squidoo page *Kleeneze can make you cry* has dissappeared. In it's place some bod says he's going to put an *unbiased* reveiw of Kleeneze , this should be good to see. Not.

I actually like putting out brochures and will do it whatever the weather, as will my other half as in his main occupation he can't work when the weather is bad, we can still put out brochures. If the children are ill i can still stay at home with them without worrying about asking for a day off and can still collect them after hubby gets in, the flexibility means a lot to us. We would rather spend time doing this than sat watching TV etc.

You don't have to teambuild, you can work with 200 brochures, build a customer base over a few months and then earn an extra income from that, i know with Kleeneze our problem was so many other agents and having to spread ourselves over a wide distance to get enough customers to give us that income but it is possible and to some families the extra cash flow each week and the flexibility of it makes a world of difference so i wish people would stop knocking it - yes theres bad (we were sucked in and naive with the teambuilding but have learnt from it) and you can make it self funding if you really wanted to, just reinvest your retail income if your aim is a long term Business, really depends what you want and i think sponsors don't do enough to find out that from their recruits, if each new recruit was helped to get what they wanted rather than pushed to see the potenial of the team building from day 1 more people would carry on and not so disillusioned.

ColinAllCars

Peter_Pan wrote: »

i wish people would stop knocking it

Telling people how it really is warts and all is hardly knocking it .