Kleeneeze or Betterware?

onceuponatim

ColinAllCars wrote: »

MLMs have crashed and burned in recent times,yours could be next.;)

MLMs have crashed and burned throughout their entire existence. No one is entirely safe.
Who would have thought Liverpool would teeter on the brink of administration.

Whether it does or does not, is of no great concern. The only difference for me would be I would have to start with another company. More to the point Id have to put some of my lifestyle on hold and do a bit of work. Their are some awesome mlm companies around, many of whom I have shares in.

Ive invested my passive income wisely to create more money so even if I did nothing, Id still be better off than Mr Average.

onceuponatim

Lady_Python wrote: »

Not everyone is glib tongued and capable of suckering gullible, desperate people into believing a lie.

Naturally then, I must have at some point been the gullible, desperate person believing the lie. And despite all the naysayers and doombringers at the time telling me it would never work, it was too late, it will saturate, you can get the products cheaper, I continued believing the lie... I feel cheated

Lady_Python wrote: »

at least I don't have to travel miles every month to the stupid brainwashing Kleeneze sessions that cost us an arm and a leg.

I have absolutely no idea what you got from them but thats where I learned about investing my income and creating more income ??? Wash me more baby!!!

onceuponatim

Caroline73 wrote: »

Kleeneze said it was £1 in orders per catalogue when I did it 12 years ago. Why is it only £1 per catalogue now?

That will never change.
The figure is actually an average of £1 a catalog and often misquoted. Maybe higher, maybe lower. This is for blanket dropping. It can be improved by presenting the catalogs. You get your "NO" upfront and the catalog only goes to a potential customer. Presenting doesn't suit everyone so they choose to letterbox and run the risk of losing catalogs etc and lower orders.

When a customer base has been established, the average per catalog goes up significantly. This is further improved by your regularity and ability to consume tea and bickies.

petestan

onceuponatim wrote: »

This is further improved by your regularity and ability to consume tea and bickies.

Know this all to well, there are certain customers I have to allow an extra 15 minutes for (if I am lucky).
Usually the only way I can get away is to slowly back towards the door.

Lady_Python

onceuponatim wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what you got from them but thats where I learned about investing my income and creating more income ??? Wash me more baby!!!

All we got was the same claptrap every time - or buy so-and-so's book. Seriously, after the first few meetings, there was absolutely nothing new, nothing you could say was a good idea to try. I just felt paying £x to get in, £x for this, that and the other plus the travelling costs I was paying for a wasted day.

I gave it up in the end for the reasons you already know about. It was a HUGE relief to get away from it.

To be fair, I think those who did make money at Kleeneze probably did so several years ago. By the time I got into it, it had reached saturation point.

Latterly, one of the streets where I had quite a lot of customers had not one but four sets of catalogues from different people. Mine got thrown out with the rest of them.

It also helps if you have a good upline. I didn't. There was a couple joined our team. They thought it was a good idea to go round my customers and tell them I wasn't doing Kleeneze any more (this was about 9 months before I finally had enough).

When I told my upline, they weren't interested and did nothing. I had to go round all my customers and tell them that what the other couple had said was a load of lies.

Contrary to what you might think, I worked very hard at Kleeneze. Perhaps if I'd been elsewhere and with a different team, things might have been different but to be blunt, I got shafted from day one.

Avon might not be any better. I haven't done it long enough to draw a comparison but at least I've been given set territories and one is a new estate where people are only starting to move in. Lot of potential there. Put it this way. Time will tell.

Have I washed you enough yet baby - got some lovely toiletries for men :rotfl:

Morethanconcerned

onceuponatim wrote: »

I appreciate the cost of joining Kleeneze puts some people off but come on, 5200 leaflets for £104...

Im going to run some figures and let me know if it makes any sense...
5200 leaflets is essentially 5200 properties.
Well given that with kleeneze you have to deliver and collect so Ill half that number (well Ill use 2700 as its a proven example I teach my team)

2700 catalogs would produce orders in the region of £2700 (£1 per book on average to a non customer base) sometimes less, oft times more.

This would result in a retail profit of £567 and a bonus of approx £260
Total = £827

Lets be realistic and take out start up costs and lost catalogs and deduct £200. That leaves a profit of £627

Now I keep telling myself Im biased but SURELY some of you guys should be in the leaflet distribution thread berating them for their madness.

I would like to take issue with your post here, especially as you ask if it makes sense.

2700 books to earn £827, that would be in one period, it would have to be to get the bonus. Lets be realistic and work out just what is actually entailed here to earn this figure of £827.

A 200 book start up was usually £180 (give or take, special offers etc , not Super 200) This was the amount of books needed to have a decent start up and supposedly get back the initial start up fees in the first 4 week period.

to drop 2700 in a period you'll need to drop 675 books a over a 7 day week for four weeks , from a standing start as we are talking of a new person here. This is where the figures get tricky for those not in the know - I'll try to make it simple.

Books need to be left at least 48 hours, so drop monday for wednesday, tue for thur, fri for sun. Theoretically we don't need 675 books to do this , three drops of 225, lets say we start with 450 books.

£180 start up, plus an extra 250 books at £34 a box of 50, £166 - £346 in total so far. We'll need labels to say what day to put the book out plus *sorry I missed you * etc leaflets too, these can be printed off on a pc rather than bought from kleeneze, we'll cover that cost later.

Off we go then, 225 books out, take a good few hours - lets be under no illusion that this couldn't be done by anyone with a normal day to day job, you just wouldn't have the time . Nextr day put the rest of the books out - probably best to take a quick look round the earlier drop to see if any books are already out, grab them as it will save time later, at the moment there is loads of time.

On wednesday start collecting in the monday books - many people won't have put them out, now some uplines suggest putting a leaflet through and quickly moving on, a mistake, knock on the door ask for the book , they may not respond to the leaflets, take the time to ask if they'd like it again cross them off if they don't. Keep CRITICAL records of where each book is. Finish the round, go home and sort through all the books , put them back in order, get out any orders. Go back out do the whole round again to get the rest of the books in, if someone is in knock the door again. Do the same the next day for the tuesday books, but also go round to see if any more first drop books are out. Return home and put the packs back together. Keep going back out to get the lost books, you'll need all of them to get the 675 drops needed every week for four weeks.

Lost books? Wet books? books eaten by the dog or chucked by houses - you may lose a minimum of 10% EACH drop , so by the end of the first 7 days you are down by over 50 books and won't have enough . Wiull you get the often quoted £1 a BOOK? That is a national average - taken mainly from retaliers who have established customer bases. With your first week of 675 books you *might* if you are lucky - very lucky - get £1 book, more likely 50p . But order a new box of books anyway - £34 - thats £380 so far.

The order arrives - if you got £675 ( if) that could be 4 - 6 large boxes of stuff to sort all through , bag up , lable, then go out and deliver - remeber though you MUST carry on like the first week, putting out a minimum of 225 books three times a week , sorting and putting them back together for next drop, you'll have to still be going round hunting for sticky books - they might have orders and anyway you NEED them all back , do this as you try to deliver all the goods - people won't be in or have no money till next week. keep looking for books.

By week four you'll have needed another 3 boxes of books 10% losses minimum - £132 - thats £512 so far.

Do this every week for four weeks - by the second week this will take the whole day till late in the evening , searching for sticky lost books, trying to deliver goods, trying to put together the catalogue packs ready for delivery next time - just putting a **please leave out tuesday* sticker in them , replacing a thursday one will take an age.

By the end of the first period will the person have got £1 book - unlikely, very neasr to it perhaps but deeply unlikely . Many factors must come into play here - that there would be 2700 houses to deliver to that didn't already (if they were that way inclined) have a kleeneze distributor? It's HUGE area to cover - even if you lived in the most crowded estates it would mean travelling miles to get the full 2700 drops, deeply unlikely you wouldn't come across other distributors who may have *mined* and area out - established customers and the rest don't want to know. By the end of the period it''l be 7 days a week all day into the evening too - lots of driving around, still trying to get sticky books in or deliver goods - if they don't get delivered one week they'll be on top of next weeks and the next etc.

So (phew) costs - £512 MINIMUM, lets take fuel costs , forget the anecdotal stories of people doing it all on foot, not going to happen , aren't enough hours in the day. Sya £20 a week? - £80 - £592, New plastic bags for the books, bags to deliver, paper and printing ink costs - say £40 - thats £632.

£632 - thats the cost - these above are conservative estimates, the fuel and perhpas hidden costs my push this up. REMEMBER though we've taken the start line as £1 a book £827 - it may be MUCH less , as MUCH as HALF , but even if it was £827 MINUS costs of £632 is £195

£195 FOR FOUR WEEKS WORK -by the end it WOULD be a full SEVEN day week trying to get books in/out/sorted and orders in/out/sorted.

Start the next period - a weeks blanket dropping as usual then the second week back to the first drops - BUT this time it'll take TWICE as long because now you can't just do every house but take out all the ones that didn't want books or lost them, the round pushes into the next one and the next etc as it grows - you STILL need to push 675 books a week. For the first three months the 10% loss is conservative so ALL the costs bar the startup will still be there.

So 395 for the second month **IF** you get £1 book - could be under half. So in two months of 7 day a week graft ,evening work you've earned £590 thats - £295 a month ONLY if you got £1 a book

How do I know all this? Been there and done it for years.

Any comments?

OldGreyFox

Welcome Morethanconcerned.

Nice long post !!!

Do you still work for them?

Caroline73_2

onceuponatim wrote: »

That will never change.
The figure is actually an average of £1 a catalog and often misquoted. Maybe higher, maybe lower. This is for blanket dropping. It can be improved by presenting the catalogs. You get your "NO" upfront and the catalog only goes to a potential customer. Presenting doesn't suit everyone so they choose to letterbox and run the risk of losing catalogs etc and lower orders.

When a customer base has been established, the average per catalog goes up significantly. This is further improved by your regularity and ability to consume tea and bickies.

So 12 years ago I drop 100 cats and get £100 in orders and earn a percentage of that. Today I do exactly the same thing and so earn exactly the same amount. However 12 years ago I could buy a lot more with same amount of cash.

Regardless of how the catalogue is presented or regularity etc. It shows that this misquoted figure has been used by reps for many years based on absolutely no eveidence.

Morethanconcerned

OldGreyFox wrote: »

Welcome Morethanconcerned.

Nice long post !!!

Do you still work for them?

It was a bit long and I trimmed it back too, I do hope people read it, there are a lot of hidden things that just aren't mentioned. When I saw the original post speaking of £827 minus just £200 I thought I ought to speak up.

The £1 a book is an across the board average, new people seeking to build an area won't get anyhting like that unless they are seriously lucky, they might get it but the next round of the same houses might get them 50P - £413, but STILL minus the amount I gave as a conservative estimte of costs for a new person building a customer base. £413 minus £632, all for the same amount of work, indeed more as the first few days are easy.

I didn't even cover the whole thing about other distributors or people ordering from you thinking you are Fred who came before - the next time they'll say no thanks!

If I get time I'll do one about the sponsoring.

And finally , no I was lucky enough to be offered a job I'd long wanted and left kleeneze after 3 yrs of hard graft retailing.Now I have holiday pay, expenses, pension, sick pay, weekend off, no working to 12pm sorting ctatlogues.

Morethanconcerned

Caroline73 wrote: »

So 12 years ago I drop 100 cats and get £100 in orders and earn a percentage of that. Today I do exactly the same thing and so earn exactly the same amount. However 12 years ago I could buy a lot more with same amount of cash.

Regardless of how the catalogue is presented or regularity etc. It shows that this misquoted figure has been used by reps for many years based on absolutely no eveidence.

It's an across the baord average, based on all figures. If you have a 3yr old established cutomer base you might well get that, even then you might have a duff week when you average 20p. A new person would be lucky to get a £1 - of course if challenged ALL uplines can give anecdotal evidence of some newbie getting £400 for 200 books - I once had an order for £200 from one book. The thing is they don't do that every 4 weeks, taken on avaerge an established customer base *might* make £1 per book on a good week but often it's much less.