Kleeneeze or Betterware?

OldGreyFox

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

If I get time I'll do one about the sponsoring.

And finally , no I was lucky enough to be offered a job I'd long wanted and left kleeneze after 3 yrs of hard graft retailing.Now I have holiday pay, expenses, pension, sick pay, weekend off, no working to 12pm sorting ctatlogues.

That would be interesting to read ,if you have time to do it.!

OldGreyFox

More competition for Kleeneze as Poundland expands and possibly goes online.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/shopping/2010/11/more-1-bargain-expected--as-poundland-plots-expansion?utm_source=forum&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=box

Honest_John_666

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

I would like to take issue with your post here, especially as you ask if it makes sense.

2700 books to earn £827, that would be in one period, it would have to be to get the bonus. Lets be realistic and work out just what is actually entailed here to earn this figure of £827.

A 200 book start up was usually £180 (give or take, special offers etc , not Super 200) This was the amount of books needed to have a decent start up and supposedly get back the initial start up fees in the first 4 week period.

to drop 2700 in a period you'll need to drop 675 books a over a 7 day week for four weeks , from a standing start as we are talking of a new person here. This is where the figures get tricky for those not in the know - I'll try to make it simple.

Books need to be left at least 48 hours, so drop monday for wednesday, tue for thur, fri for sun. Theoretically we don't need 675 books to do this , three drops of 225, lets say we start with 450 books.

£180 start up, plus an extra 250 books at £34 a box of 50, £166 - £346 in total so far. We'll need labels to say what day to put the book out plus *sorry I missed you * etc leaflets too, these can be printed off on a pc rather than bought from kleeneze, we'll cover that cost later.

Off we go then, 225 books out, take a good few hours - lets be under no illusion that this couldn't be done by anyone with a normal day to day job, you just wouldn't have the time . Nextr day put the rest of the books out - probably best to take a quick look round the earlier drop to see if any books are already out, grab them as it will save time later, at the moment there is loads of time.

On wednesday start collecting in the monday books - many people won't have put them out, now some uplines suggest putting a leaflet through and quickly moving on, a mistake, knock on the door ask for the book , they may not respond to the leaflets, take the time to ask if they'd like it again cross them off if they don't. Keep CRITICAL records of where each book is. Finish the round, go home and sort through all the books , put them back in order, get out any orders. Go back out do the whole round again to get the rest of the books in, if someone is in knock the door again. Do the same the next day for the tuesday books, but also go round to see if any more first drop books are out. Return home and put the packs back together. Keep going back out to get the lost books, you'll need all of them to get the 675 drops needed every week for four weeks.

Lost books? Wet books? books eaten by the dog or chucked by houses - you may lose a minimum of 10% EACH drop , so by the end of the first 7 days you are down by over 50 books and won't have enough . Wiull you get the often quoted £1 a BOOK? That is a national average - taken mainly from retaliers who have established customer bases. With your first week of 675 books you *might* if you are lucky - very lucky - get £1 book, more likely 50p . But order a new box of books anyway - £34 - thats £380 so far.

The order arrives - if you got £675 ( if) that could be 4 - 6 large boxes of stuff to sort all through , bag up , lable, then go out and deliver - remeber though you MUST carry on like the first week, putting out a minimum of 225 books three times a week , sorting and putting them back together for next drop, you'll have to still be going round hunting for sticky books - they might have orders and anyway you NEED them all back , do this as you try to deliver all the goods - people won't be in or have no money till next week. keep looking for books.

By week four you'll have needed another 3 boxes of books 10% losses minimum - £132 - thats £512 so far.

Do this every week for four weeks - by the second week this will take the whole day till late in the evening , searching for sticky lost books, trying to deliver goods, trying to put together the catalogue packs ready for delivery next time - just putting a **please leave out tuesday* sticker in them , replacing a thursday one will take an age.

By the end of the first period will the person have got £1 book - unlikely, very neasr to it perhaps but deeply unlikely . Many factors must come into play here - that there would be 2700 houses to deliver to that didn't already (if they were that way inclined) have a kleeneze distributor? It's HUGE area to cover - even if you lived in the most crowded estates it would mean travelling miles to get the full 2700 drops, deeply unlikely you wouldn't come across other distributors who may have *mined* and area out - established customers and the rest don't want to know. By the end of the period it''l be 7 days a week all day into the evening too - lots of driving around, still trying to get sticky books in or deliver goods - if they don't get delivered one week they'll be on top of next weeks and the next etc.

So (phew) costs - £512 MINIMUM, lets take fuel costs , forget the anecdotal stories of people doing it all on foot, not going to happen , aren't enough hours in the day. Sya £20 a week? - £80 - £592, New plastic bags for the books, bags to deliver, paper and printing ink costs - say £40 - thats £632.

£632 - thats the cost - these above are conservative estimates, the fuel and perhpas hidden costs my push this up. REMEMBER though we've taken the start line as £1 a book £827 - it may be MUCH less , as MUCH as HALF , but even if it was £827 MINUS costs of £632 is £195

£195 FOR FOUR WEEKS WORK -by the end it WOULD be a full SEVEN day week trying to get books in/out/sorted and orders in/out/sorted.

Start the next period - a weeks blanket dropping as usual then the second week back to the first drops - BUT this time it'll take TWICE as long because now you can't just do every house but take out all the ones that didn't want books or lost them, the round pushes into the next one and the next etc as it grows - you STILL need to push 675 books a week. For the first three months the 10% loss is conservative so ALL the costs bar the startup will still be there.

So 395 for the second month **IF** you get £1 book - could be under half. So in two months of 7 day a week graft ,evening work you've earned £590 thats - £295 a month ONLY if you got £1 a book

How do I know all this? Been there and done it for years.

Any comments?

Clicked on today to see if I had any half decent replies :rotfl:

Saw this & my initial thoughts were......OH NO........not another person in dreamland then saw what OGF wrote then went & re-read again

THANKS MORETHANCONCERNED :money:

I think you have been more than conservative in your estimate. you have forgotton waiting in for your delivery, paying for goods upfront??? & paying for the ordering system. Other charges as well such as phonecalls then the dreaded tax & NI have to be taken into account

I suspect onceuponatim got invited by someone on here looking for help & has IMO opinion made himself out to look a fool & he didn't answer this but simply stck up a typical MLM scenario.

Seen a few replies about how fantastic he is & how well off he is which is brilliant to here BUT suspect when the soap falls of the rack he'll still wake up in the bath:rotfl:

Good to hear your stories & yes there are some good Kleeneze people out there.

I think we're all getting sick of the Kleeneze BS & in a world that is consistently trying to rip off each other I for one will be ahappy if the disappeared of the face of the planet

Regards
John

Honest_John_666

onceuponatim wrote: »

Pete, I'm going to leave you to enjoy this thread. I don't need to justify a £2500 per month passive income to anyone. (well perhaps my wife).
The volley of insults that come when faced with irrefutable facts indicates the intellect level of the individuals I'm debating with.

This is a thread in the MSE forum, everyone has access to it. I am a financially savvy self employed businessman (look at the income thread for the details). No one has invited me to it.

How do you suggest I answer a question objectively when I've been told that we've got an answer for everything. I used to think that meant you were knowledgeable. However it appears in order to be knowledgeable it is merely a requirement to regurgitate someone else's third hand story that was more often than not factually incorrect. The source usually a friend of a friend or perhaps someone else apparently in the know but not willing to post on the thread.

John regards your £500 a week. A tax free option would be close protection security in Afganistan. One of my old forces buddies earns £70k tax free. Hes on a better screw than me and has a great tan.

So I cant earn £500 per week with Kleeneze

Let me make it easier waht about £250 per week then

Come on as your so fantastic you can tell me the game plan

Regards
John

Honest_John_666

petestan wrote: »

Hi John, why should he be deleted, you said to me previously that a poster who just slagged of Kleeneze but added nothing to the discussion was entitled to his opinion and should be heard. Well Tim whoever he is, is entitled to his opinion, he has not put up links to his website or tried to recruit any poster's to this thread he has simply stated his opinion and seeing as he is already in Kleeneze it is bound to be a positive one. Are you now saying only negative opinions of Kleeneze are allowed on this thread?

NO I didn't invite him onto this thread, if like myself he gets Google alert emails for Kleeneze then he will have seen this thread in those and come of his own volition, Pete.

Hi Pete

I think this person talks a load of rubbish, if you didn't invite him then IMO someone else did to help out this thread BUT not doing a good job is he/she

Keep up the good work

Regards
John

Honest_John_666

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

It was a bit long and I trimmed it back too, I do hope people read it, there are a lot of hidden things that just aren't mentioned. When I saw the original post speaking of £827 minus just £200 I thought I ought to speak up.

The £1 a book is an across the board average, new people seeking to build an area won't get anyhting like that unless they are seriously lucky, they might get it but the next round of the same houses might get them 50P - £413, but STILL minus the amount I gave as a conservative estimte of costs for a new person building a customer base. £413 minus £632, all for the same amount of work, indeed more as the first few days are easy.

I didn't even cover the whole thing about other distributors or people ordering from you thinking you are Fred who came before - the next time they'll say no thanks!

If I get time I'll do one about the sponsoring.

And finally , no I was lucky enough to be offered a job I'd long wanted and left kleeneze after 3 yrs of hard graft retailing.Now I have holiday pay, expenses, pension, sick pay, weekend off, no working to 12pm sorting ctatlogues.

Would be interested in your take on the recruiting side :j

I saw a person today @ my local farm shop with the stickers on the back of the car saying the same rubbish earn this earn that with the OBVIOUS no name of the company. OBVIOUS. I was in a good mood so I thought I'd ask the perosn & you guessed it she wass Kleeneze!!!

She said this was her mums car, she did try it & she failed her mum has been trying for 7 years & got nowhere!!!

Regards
John

onceuponatim

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

Any comments?

None, other than thank you for taking the time to at least read the post.

I'm sure if you've read any of my other posts, you'll realise that any time wasted crossing the t's and dotting the i's would only be subjected to beligerent abuse.

Now as much as youve taken the time to at least read the post AND make a heartfelt contribution to the forum, youve missed the point of the post in question.

That particular post was in reference to another thread relating to a leaflet dropper being paid £104 to drop 5200 leaflets and how that particular activity would be construed as okay by some on here.

I can agree with EVERYTHING youve said on your post. I have had crap days weeks and months. Just read the rest of my posts and you'll see the angle I've come from.

The simple fact however is I am where I am TODAY!!!
Ive lost the 200 books in the rain. and again...
Ive built the Gold distributor business, only for it all to disappear. Then to go on, regain Gold, achieve Senior then Bronze Exec.

Ive had to do big retail, when the situation dictated it. Ive never promoted it and don't want any of my team doing it. UNLESS THEY HAVE TO FOR INSTANT INCOME (that's their decision)


These are all facts, as is the fact that I still have an average £2500 residual income from my Kleeneze business. I dont catalog, I dont recruit, I dont do anything except enjoy whats coming in. Period.

Im still waiting for ANYONE to tell me who their sponsor and upline were but nothing yet. I dont suppose in your fit of honesty youll remember yours??

billsavings

onceuponatim wrote: »

Im still waiting for ANYONE to tell me who their sponsor and upline were but nothing yet. I dont suppose in your fit of honesty youll remember yours??

How about you declareing who you really are,where you fit in the Kleeneeze hierachy and who your upline is then.

Morethanconcerned

onceuponatim wrote: »

None, other than thank you for taking the time to at least read the post.

I'm sure if you've read any of my other posts, you'll realise that any time wasted crossing the t's and dotting the i's would only be subjected to beligerent abuse.

Now as much as youve taken the time to at least read the post AND make a heartfelt contribution to the forum, youve missed the point of the post in question.

That particular post was in reference to another thread relating to a leaflet dropper being paid £104 to drop 5200 leaflets and how that particular activity would be construed as okay by some on here.

I can agree with EVERYTHING youve said on your post. I have had crap days weeks and months. Just read the rest of my posts and you'll see the angle I've come from.

The simple fact however is I am where I am TODAY!!!
Ive lost the 200 books in the rain. and again...
Ive built the Gold distributor business, only for it all to disappear. Then to go on, regain Gold, achieve Senior then Bronze Exec.

Ive had to do big retail, when the situation dictated it. Ive never promoted it and don't want any of my team doing it. UNLESS THEY HAVE TO FOR INSTANT INCOME (that's their decision)


These are all facts, as is the fact that I still have an average £2500 residual income from my Kleeneze business. I dont catalog, I dont recruit, I dont do anything except enjoy whats coming in. Period.

Im still waiting for ANYONE to tell me who their sponsor and upline were but nothing yet. I dont suppose in your fit of honesty youll remember yours??

So you say **You've never promoted it or encouraged it** - but in the original post I replied to your words were **This is what I teach my team** . So which is it? But then you put unless they need to for INSTANT INCOME. Which means if they need to break Gold , which is what many do/ But income it certainly isn't , it's born of desperation to get on the Autumn conference or the Spring one. A sudden burst of big personal retail to tip the balance, often it meant deperate near golds going miles form home to find new areas - I had a near gold hitting areas by me , they were 10 miles from home, desperation.

Your analogy was how easy it would be to earn lots more money than delivering leaflets - neither thing is good but in fact looking at my detailed take down of the Kleeneze option, they'd be better off delivering leaflets for a month than take up Kleeneze. Atleast if they did it regular they'd be **Guaranteed** the income promised rather than the Kleeneze *what if* option.

Now if you've succeeded with Kleeneze then good for you with your £2500 income - but are you really *doing* nothing? are you so sure all those downlines will still be hard at it in 6 months? 2 yrs? From what I heard SED's like yourself would be actively funding newpaper adverts and signing up people into Bronzes frontline below you to keep up PSG levels. £2500 isn't that much actually - I've seen cheques for £3000 and they were still recruiting. If those below you fail who will pay you to do nothing? Have you invested most of it in a pension or savings - it seems to me to be on very shaky ground. If Kleeneze fails you'll be left high and dry - no redundancy , no payoffs nothing. I hope it doesn't - you'll miss that money, as will many of them. I wouldn't start thinking that you have some business acumen other than extremely good marketing ability - extremely good indeed - but so often peiople think they are *business gurus* but Kleeneze isn't a real business it's an MLM tower.

I have to ask quite seriously though - WHY do you want to know who uplines are? this forum is anonymous , I know all my uplines and if you knew them you'd be able to deduce who I might be. WHY? do you intend to make trouble for them? WHY do you want or indeed need to know?

Morethanconcerned

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

Would be interested in your take on the recruiting side :j

I saw a person today @ my local farm shop with the stickers on the back of the car saying the same rubbish earn this earn that with the OBVIOUS no name of the company. OBVIOUS. I was in a good mood so I thought I'd ask the perosn & you guessed it she wass Kleeneze!!!

She said this was her mums car, she did try it & she failed her mum has been trying for 7 years & got nowhere!!!

Regards
John

The car adverts are a classic - one for me to cover in my post about sposoring which I *will* get round to I promise. A few thoughts to consider - the *earn extra money * ads in the back of tatty 10 yr old motors, who thought that wouldn't get the calssic response *why don't you buy a decent car then*?