Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Morethanconcerned

lozza1985 wrote: »

Yes they still run the management alongside to help keep the territory issues sorted out. They brought a new system in last year so sl can allocate territory to new reps when they join - so territory problems are fairly minimal. Before you could be waiting weeks to hear back from a manager about what streets someone could have which is why a lot were probably told to drop where they like. Now we can do it ourselves and it literally just takes a few minutes so it's improved things enormously.

How do Avon work out which streets? Some streets are rubbish some are good, some flats, intercoms etc that don't lend themsleves to any kind of catalogue sales.

I had the Betterware catalogue the other day, I know from a really big long established Betterware distributor round here that this particular area is very poor and they have new people all the time but they don't last - I met her in another area where she had built a sizable round over a few years. Even on my kleeneze round this area was just awful , a handful of customers in a very large area.

Morethanconcerned

Lady_Python wrote: »

Yes, Morethanconcerned. Essence of unneutered Tom Cat was the worst as it not only stank up the other books, but stank up your hands too - and the car - and everything it came in contact with. Yuk!!!

Billsavings. I can well imagine their MD taking umbrage.

Avon's a lot easier and cheaper to get started with, has set territories (although there have been problems with some) and their products are good. I'm just waiting for my second order to arrive and I'm like a kid waiting for a new toy - hoping the weather doesn't delay it.

Avon is going down the MLM road as well - from what I can see those that make a reasonable to good living from Avon are ASMs or SLs with teams under them but some of the ordinary reps who have built up a good customer base do very well too.

The thing with Avon is, no-one seems to give you any hassle unlike Kleeneze upline who were breathing down your neck all the time.

The thing that got me with Kleeneze was a few months before the Farepak disaster when there was a memo on how rocky things were on the Kleeneze website for all to see.

The upline really were in denial - or the biggest liars on the planet as they denied there was any problem at all, that there was absolutely nothing wrong - yet it was there in black and white for all to see.

Even when the parent company went belly up, they still denied anything was wrong :rotfl:

They must have thought we were born yesterday!

I always thought Avon was a sort of MLM anyway with regional amangers etc. Do they get a percentage of sales then?

Lady_Python

Territories seem to be an issue even at the moment. Some new reps are getting allocated areas where there are reps already, some are being told to do their own thing and some are getting their own territory where no-one else is doing them.

SLs can allocate territory but they don't always do it. Mine didn't. I got my territories allocated from the ASM. The first couple of streets I didn't want because they were in a very bad area and I was told by a potential customer that they already had a rep. That doesn't seem to be the case and I've now got two customers there plus quite a few in the new streets I was given.

As far as I know and Lozza can correct me if I'm wrong, but the ASMs (and SLs now) have a map so I presume they see the streets in an area that are not being covered and allocate these to the new reps. However, I know that some ASMs haven't got a clue about the area they're covering as they don't live there. Like my ASM. A really nice lady but she doesn't even live in our town let alone the area I live in. Result was she gave me one of the worst streets in our estate - a known drug den, always being raided by the police. Not safe for a rep, especially when you are carrying money so I refused to do it. No problem. She gave me better streets and I've picked up some really good orders.

Morethanconcerned. As far as I know the ASMs and SLs don't get any percentage of our sales (overriders) but, again, Lozza will be able to answer that one better than I can. As it happens, I've put out tentative feelers on possibly becoming an SL once I've learnt the ropes a bit better.

lozza1985

For sales leaders to allocate territory all we do is enter the persons details and their postcode and it allocates them approx 100 houses nearest to them that is free - but yes it could be rubbish for sales, Avon give us figure reps should be able to get, for part of oh territory it says £150, we got £8.50 this time plus £25 from a lady who used to live their but moved to the next village and still wanted a book from us. It isnt a perfect system - however if the territory is rubbish (no one interested, mostly shops etc) we can get extra territory by asking the manager. Sales leaders cannot see what territory is free, only the area manager can do that, to stop a sales leader abusing the system.

Managers don't earn from reps sales, they are paid a salary and have a bonus scheme which is based on getting x amount of new reps in their area. Sales leaders do earn a % of their reps sales, but it doesn't affect how much the rep gets just means Avon gets less. Mlm in Avon was started about 8 years ago, but isnt pressed onto everyone - we know most people just want to sell to earn a bit of extra money. When I tried kleeneze, the order forms had on the bottom about building a team, I sat and cut that bit off them all as we had no intention of team building with kleeneze. Avon isnt like that thankfully, you choose to become a sl rather than it being forced and expected on you from day one like we found.

Lady_Python

Thanks for that Lozza - explains things clearer to me too.

My first campaign I only had less than a week to do but made MOV - £81. Second campaign with the new streets I was really pleased as I had over £250 with three good orders. Two for £37 and one for £43. The customers are Avon fanatics who have really been missing Avon for a long time.

I've asked the ASM for another street I know could be good but I'm still waiting to hear back from her.

Must admit I'm enjoying doing Avon probably partly because I like Avon products myself - and no, I'm not going to blow all my commission on it...well...just a little bit :rotfl:

Morethanconcerned

lozza1985 wrote: »

For sales leaders to allocate territory all we do is enter the persons details and their postcode and it allocates them approx 100 houses nearest to them that is free - but yes it could be rubbish for sales, Avon give us figure reps should be able to get, for part of oh territory it says £150, we got £8.50 this time plus £25 from a lady who used to live their but moved to the next village and still wanted a book from us. It isnt a perfect system - however if the territory is rubbish (no one interested, mostly shops etc) we can get extra territory by asking the manager. Sales leaders cannot see what territory is free, only the area manager can do that, to stop a sales leader abusing the system.

Managers don't earn from reps sales, they are paid a salary and have a bonus scheme which is based on getting x amount of new reps in their area. Sales leaders do earn a % of their reps sales, but it doesn't affect how much the rep gets just means Avon gets less. Mlm in Avon was started about 8 years ago, but isnt pressed onto everyone - we know most people just want to sell to earn a bit of extra money. When I tried kleeneze, the order forms had on the bottom about building a team, I sat and cut that bit off them all as we had no intention of team building with kleeneze. Avon isnt like that thankfully, you choose to become a sl rather than it being forced and expected on you from day one like we found.

Avon sounds like a much better system - it must work to a degree as there is a *huge* Avon thread and everyone seems delighted, in fact it's hard to find much negative Avon stuff out there.

The funny thing I'd quite forgotten about the labels on the botton of the Kleeneze order forms - in my time I never had anyone sign up from them , a could of inquiries and thats it. The thing is you don't really want someone else on your patch regardless what Kleeneze say about there being enough houses to go round -no good if you are falling over each other.

Morethanconcerned

Lady_Python wrote: »

Thanks for that Lozza - explains things clearer to me too.

My first campaign I only had less than a week to do but made MOV - £81. Second campaign with the new streets I was really pleased as I had over £250 with three good orders. Two for £37 and one for £43. The customers are Avon fanatics who have really been missing Avon for a long time.

I've asked the ASM for another street I know could be good but I'm still waiting to hear back from her.

Must admit I'm enjoying doing Avon probably partly because I like Avon products myself - and no, I'm not going to blow all my commission on it...well...just a little bit :rotfl:

Sounds great ! I do remeber once being phioned by an Avon rep and asked if I'd like to do Avon with my Kleenze! She'd seen my books out and phoned my number. I wouldn't have done that.

I notice the Squidoo "Kleeneze makes you cry" site that was taken down last week is back up again - it's all kicking off there, what a difference to the many threads here about Avon.

Peter_Pan

This seems to be becoming an Avon thread
I'm curious and interested in what people think is better about Avon than Kleeneze?

Debbie

Lady_Python

Peter_Pan wrote: »

This seems to be becoming an Avon thread
I'm curious and interested in what people think is better about Avon than Kleeneze?

Debbie

Err, everything!

Peter_Pan

Lady_Python wrote: »

Err, everything!

Why i ask Lady Python is from a retailing point of view how can Avon be better when you only get given a few streets whereas Kleeneze has no territories so yes you may come across other agents but you can also move to another area and keep moving until you find how many customers you want?
I really can't see how having an Avon territory of 100-200 houses can make a rep much money - the average figure i believe is about 1:20/25 houses will be interested and then you have brochures to buy, bags etc. We seem to have a different Avon rep every time we have a brochure through the door which isn't that often at all and then we'll have two on occasions from two different people.