Kleeneeze or Betterware?

onceuponatim

beccie wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

Signed up and within 10 mins they had emailed me, I am having the leaflets dropped at my house tomorrow.

I have 1 week to deliver 5,200 leaflets for £104.

Not brilliant amounts but the extra will help dent the debts and I def could use the exercise!

ooo I typed another war and peace and it didnt submit... conspiracy

anyhoo, I thought the above post was interesting from another thread

I appreciate the cost of joining Kleeneze puts some people off but come on, 5200 leaflets for £104...

Im going to run some figures and let me know if it makes any sense...
5200 leaflets is essentially 5200 properties.
Well given that with kleeneze you have to deliver and collect so Ill half that number (well Ill use 2700 as its a proven example I teach my team)

2700 catalogs would produce orders in the region of £2700 (£1 per book on average to a non customer base) sometimes less, oft times more.

This would result in a retail profit of £567 and a bonus of approx £260
Total = £827

Lets be realistic and take out start up costs and lost catalogs and deduct £200. That leaves a profit of £627

Now I keep telling myself Im biased but SURELY some of you guys should be in the leaflet distribution thread berating them for their madness.

Lady_Python

onceuponatim wrote: »

No not Tim Pace, clearly.
Nobody invited me to the thread John, its an open thread on the MSE forums.
As for pearls of wisdom….hmmm for everyone really….”stop sitting here !!!!!ing about whether Kleeneze works or doesn’t.
Accept the fact that some are making money and some are not. Find something else your good at, make a lot of money, then come back and say “ha, told you so”

Im a realist in all of this. Everyone can find tons of reasons Kleeneze wont work from them - I had more than enough and there are still a few challenges today. That does not escape the fact however that I, Me, took my box of catalogs and the business manual and put it to work.
From day 1 I asked myself the question – will putting catalogs out every day earn me £5000 per month (the magic figure I set myself when I joined). Answer – No. So I didn’t do that. I found out what I needed to do, to get where I wanted to be and followed that plan. NO OTHER COMPANY IS ABLE TO MAP OUT WHAT A PERSON NEEDS TO DO IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THEIR DESIRED INCOME – FACT (up to a point though, id say approx £40,000 per month)

Being your own business however, you have the choice to follow the blueprint or indeed make up your own. Imagine the trainee builder with the blueprint for a cathedral. But he thinks he knows best and does his own thing. Rather than Notre Dame he ends up with Grannies Out House.
Its clearly the bricks, or the trowel, or the cement, or the cup of tea, or the jeans that showed too much builders bum.....

It intrigues me when I read this post. Im sure everyone on here that’s saying Kleeneze failed for them honestly and genuinely believes the lies they are telling themselves when they say they have done everything…and its Kleenezes fault.

For goodness sake, wipe the slate clean, be honest with yourself and then take a proper look.
Ive had people in my team !!!!! and moan about retail issues and then complain about why they had no people in their team. It turned out they weren’t advertising…. Simplistic you may think, but youd be surprised by perceptions when you get bogged down by the nitty gritty.

I could sit here and bleat on about the people that joined after me who are now earning in excess of £5000 per month. But I don’t.

I didn’t make the calls they made. I didn’t make the calls period in some weeks and months. I never seen the people. I never did the whatever. It was me….not Kleeneze.

Kleeneze are a company and a supplier. They source products, negotiate with delivery companies, pay out bonus checks and hopefully make money for shareholders.


I’ve seen a couple of posts about monthly and annual turnovers and whether or not they will be bigger than last year. That remains to be seen. What’s more important is the understanding of what is actually going on. We are in a period of economic downturn whether you choose to accept it or not. The product range of Kleeneze is quite large and diverse. HOWEVER the core range of products for use around the home continues to be a consistent seller. These are items in the 1.99 to 5.99 range. Kleeneze bread and butter so to speak.
You will see a reduction potentially in the higher ticket items due to the unease felt by the buying customers who are watching the pennies. You only have to look at the highstreet, its simple economics.

To many people in the recent past boom years have focused on large retail. This creates falsely inflated figures which are NOT sustainable. Not deliberately but purely they have been focusing on their own financial requirements.

There are numerous other posts that make me smile. One lady who appears to hate all that Kleeneze stands for with its catalog that moves product from a company to a consumer coupled with a network marketing business structure only to say she’s joined another company that moves product from a company to a consumer using a catalog and approx 7-8 years ago changed their business model to a network marketing structure as it would allow their turnover to grow significantly


For all Kleeneze turnover figures quoted please add VAT for the real ££ value. It helps put it in perspective.


The post re recruiting figures – from my observations, if you get 100 people join a business like this (including Avon, Amway, Monavie, Agel, Herbalife et al), only around 20 will EVER recruit anyone into their business. WHY? Motivation, reasons, skills, confidence, work ethic and more.
A lot of people (and mainly the historical recruiters) have gotten bogged down by the retail. Forgotten that it’s about a lot of people doing a little. And many never got started. A lot of people take the easy option and go and drop 50 catalogs rather than make 10 telephone calls. And that is completely their choice (and this may have been you…)

Again I say, be honest.

I personally wish Kleeneze would never drop the price for the starter kit. The price is irrelevant. I will show someone how to get their money back in their first month and produce a profit. And any money spent on your start up is ultimately a business expense which your going to offset against your tax.

Any more red herrings?

So, you made (make) your money off recruiting and team building.

How many people have you recruited who believed the lie and gave up very quickly - after wasting money they probably couldn't afford in the first place? My bet is a lot if not most of them.

I built up a good customer base. I also did recruiting for a while but never felt comfortable with it simply because I knew I was trying to sell a lie.

Yes, there are people who have made a lot of money out of Kleeneze but they've done it off the backs of other people.

That makes them parasites.

geordie_joe

onceuponatim wrote: »

2700 catalogs would produce orders in the region of £2700 (£1 per book on average to a non customer base) sometimes less, oft times more.

This is my big problem with kleeneze, they quote figures like £1 of orders per book on a non customer base drop. When in my experience it was a lot less. They tell you that if you aren't making money it's because you aren't working hard enough, but what can you do? You put the catalogues through the door and they come back without any order!

When I started I divided my town into small 120 book areas. In the first area I put out 120 books and got half a dozen orders worth £29.xx in total.

When I re-dropped the same area a couple of months later I got two orders worth about 8 quid in total. The next time I got no orders and didn't ever get any more orders for that area.

It was much the same with every other area. Some orders the first time, less the next, sometimes a couple on the third drop then nothing more.

It wasn't that I wasn't working hard enough, I was. It was just that people weren't placing orders. And the reason for that was the items in the catalogue are over priced rubbish. They are either novelty items that turn out not to be the miracle product you can't live without, or normal items you can get much cheaper elsewhere.

The only way you can make money from kleeneze is by recruiting other and taking a share of their earnings while they sell to friends, family and neighbours for a few months until the orders dry up and they give up. If you continually recruit you will have replaced them before they give up.

Of course, to recruit, you have to claim you make good money by selling alone and have a good customer base that order from you regularly so you don't have to blanket drop areas, just drop to your regular customers. And you have to defend kleeneze at every opportunity. Because you may (or one of those under you) try to recruit someone who has heard bad things about kleeneze. So you have to defend it when bad things are said, so you can tell the potential recrutee those who say it doesn't work simply didn't work hard enough.

onceuponatim

"So, you made (make) your money off recruiting and team building.

How many people have you recruited who believed the lie and gave up very quickly - after wasting money they probably couldn't afford in the first place? My bet is a lot if not most of them.

I built up a good customer base. I also did recruiting for a while but never felt comfortable with it simply because I knew I was trying to sell a lie.

Yes, there are people who have made a lot of money out of Kleeneze but they've done it off the backs of other people.

That makes them parasites."

What is the LIE that YOU were trying to sell???
I personally see the credibility issue lies with you rather than a multimillion pound company.

You castigate an opportunity that you failed with and flippantly try to bring closure by branding successful people as parasites where you clearly do not understand the concept of the business model at hand. Yet you wax lyrical about your involvement with Avon, a company that pays bonuses based on sales turnover (your own or your team if you!!!8217;re a Sales leader) and has subsequently adopted a similar networking model.
The two ideals are the same, all be it with a different product and marginal differences in the percentages payed out. I appreciate you may prefer to wholesale buy cosmetics than thick and thin cheese slicers but please be pragmatic and honest with points that merit an argument.

With regards to where I make my money, there are NO financial incentives for a distributor to sponsor someone else. There is no money made when a new distributor joins. If you!!!8217;ve done what you allude to have done, you will know that.
It costs me money to recruit someone, advertising, postage, petrol etc. It is only when that new distributor begins to make any money that his turnover is reflected in my overall turnover. And at no time is money taken away from that new distributor.

As an executive distributor, I would be paid approx £400 for every person I help achieve Gold Distributor (with approx earnings around £1200 a month). I tell that to people from day one. They have the choice to achieve what ever level they choose.
Consider the construction industry, some choose to be brickies, some acrchitects and some property tycoons.

I have had a tonne of people who gave up very quickly, but it was not because of any LIE that I told THEM.
I!!!8217;ve had people tell me that they!!!8217;ve spent hours putting books out and got no orders only to find them still in boxes in their house.
Oh what else!!!8230; A girl told me she got no orders, ever!!! Only to find she left the books lying outside of the property rather than put it through the door.
Quit because products were held up at customs during a strike action
Quit when she found out it rained in England!!!
Quit because she had spent the £700 she got from her first week in orders rather than pay Kleeneze what she owed them.
Quit because unlike a £5 per hour shop job, you don!!!8217;t just get money for turning up.
Quit because he seen another Kleeneze catalog on the street he was working on. Decided to join Betterware. Did a FANTASTIC job in a crappy area getting new customers. Was then moved by Betterware to a new crappy area as he was seen as a troubleshooter. This happened 3 times before he rejoined me as Kleeneze reps choose where they go, not rounds owned by the company.

Without knowing anything about you, I!!!8217;m going to make a random guess that you were one of those that thought the answer was in the retail. (Im prepared to be wrong !!!8211; shock me) Just keep retailing ad infinitem!!!8230;.and when you realised you had just swapped one job for another, you told yourself Kleeneze didn!!!8217;t work.
You probably couldn!!!8217;t tell me your sponsors name as you had very little contact with them and you never let anyone show you how things actually worked because you didn!!!8217;t want to go to one of those !!!8220;meetings!!!8221;.

For all those forum cruisers, its worth noting that Kleeneze meeting/conference/gathering is not one of the hype events commonly associated with Amway, Herbalife, melaleuca et al as Kleeneze do show income figures. Others shy away as literally no one is making money. This is where the bad press originated regarding uplines profited from sales tools etc as they were generating little from their key businesses. That is not to say their haven!!!8217;t been instances where sales tools have been made available and the distributor profited. That!!!8217;s a no no in my eyes AND the companies.

onceuponatim

geordie_joe wrote: »

This is my big problem with kleeneze, they quote figures like £1 of orders per book on a non customer base drop. When in my experience it was a lot less. They tell you that if you aren't making money it's because you aren't working hard enough, but what can you do? You put the catalogues through the door and they come back without any order!

When I started I divided my town into small 120 book areas. In the first area I put out 120 books and got half a dozen orders worth £29.xx in total.

When I re-dropped the same area a couple of months later I got two orders worth about 8 quid in total. The next time I got no orders and didn't ever get any more orders for that area.

It was much the same with every other area. Some orders the first time, less the next, sometimes a couple on the third drop then nothing more.

It wasn't that I wasn't working hard enough, I was. It was just that people weren't placing orders. And the reason for that was the items in the catalogue are over priced rubbish. They are either novelty items that turn out not to be the miracle product you can't live without, or normal items you can get much cheaper elsewhere.

The only way you can make money from kleeneze is by recruiting other and taking a share of their earnings while they sell to friends, family and neighbours for a few months until the orders dry up and they give up. If you continually recruit you will have replaced them before they give up.

Of course, to recruit, you have to claim you make good money by selling alone and have a good customer base that order from you regularly so you don't have to blanket drop areas, just drop to your regular customers. And you have to defend kleeneze at every opportunity. Because you may (or one of those under you) try to recruit someone who has heard bad things about kleeneze. So you have to defend it when bad things are said, so you can tell the potential recrutee those who say it doesn't work simply didn't work hard enough.

Brilliant – Great post Joe.
Straight away I see two glaring flaws in what you’ve done and Ive seen it with other members of my team who were honest enough to say “help, its not working my way…what do You do?”

You re dropped the area a couple of months later!!! 4 weeks between drops – 5 weeks max. Customers are looking for a reliable distributor, not some fly by night. They see them all the time. You get teaser £1.99 orders from your best customers. They want to see if your coming back…. And when you do…kaching!!!

Dividing your area up into 120 book areas. I don’t know how much time you spent analysing your immediate area but immediately im thinking TOO MUCH!!!
It doesn’t sound as if you’ve said to your sponsor “I need to earn £x, what do I need to do” Im not going to ask who he is because your probably going to tell me you don’t know or cant remember!!!!

You say the only way you can make money is………etc… Nonsense. EVERYTHING must be governed by what YOU want to earn AND the time you have available. I have people in my team that wanted to earn £1000 straight away. We put a plan together and they did it!!! The now earn that AND more for much less effort AND they still have no intention of team building for their own personal reasons.
Many people are happy earning £5 per hour in a crappy job but have a mindset that IF 10 hours doing Kleeneze (and that’s not thinking about doing it…) only paid £50 then it must be a scam.


With regards to the products, oh come one, your just clutching at straws there. Give me something to get my teeth into. Yes there are crap items in the catalog. Kleeneze remove all items that receive approx 7 returns based on quality issues.
They also pre order items months ahead based on what is showcased to them and they have been caught out when the eventual shipment is a “bag of spanners”. Items do get through QA as shipments are only random sampled. But all customers are offered a no quibble money back guarantee. Virtually every shop you go into is full of over priced stuff you don’t need, really we don’t need half of the crap we buy in every sector. Groupon for example is making a mint by selling people stuff they don’t need or really want but are buying it as it appears to be a huge saving.

And as for making false claims about earnings…futile practice. You will always be caught out….. There is no need. Honesty is imperative. The fakers will always be found out…or walk away and blame the opportunity.

Next

Lady_Python

The lie, as if you didn't know it, is that people can live the good life off Kleeneze.

Instead, they end up tramping the streets in all weathers for nothing, lose most of their books then have to go and buy more. Nice little earner - for Kleeneze.

Some do live the good life, but off the backs of others.

Geordie Joe's got it spot on - couldn't have put it any better myself.

You are defending Kleeneze to the hilt, yet Kleeneze is in dire straights - again.

First with the Farepak Hampers scandal and now Findel are possibly looking to offload them.

Kleeneze doesn't look in a particularly good position to me and if it shut down tomorrow, I'm afraid I'd have a good laugh.

petestan

Lady_Python wrote: »

You are defending Kleeneze to the hilt, yet Kleeneze is in dire straights - again.

First with the Farepak Hampers scandal and now Findel are possibly looking to offload them.

Kleeneze doesn't look in a particularly good position to me and if it shut down tomorrow, I'm afraid I'd have a good laugh.

As I have already posted Kleeneze made £6.3 million profit last financial year, it is the education side and the so called internet businesses that Findel have now sold off that have caused all their problems.

Kleeneze's operating profit was £6.3 million to April 2010.

http://www.findel.co.uk/wps/wcm/conn...e6be2ab1bb6a02

If Findel was to go into receivership I am sure someone would very quickly snap up Kleeneze.

geordie_joe

onceuponatim wrote: »

Brilliant – Great post Joe.
Straight away I see two glaring flaws in what you’ve done

And I think your calculator needs new batteries.


and Ive seen it with other members of my team who were honest enough to say “help, its not working my way…what do You do?”

Are you saying I was not honest enough to ask for help?

OK, If I'd asked for help, what would you have told me to do?

You re dropped the area a couple of months later!!! 4 weeks between drops – 5 weeks max.

I think you'll find a couple of months is 8 weeks, not any were near 4 or 5.

Maybe this is the reason you think you are making money money from Kleeneze, the batteries in your calculator are dead.

Customers are looking for a reliable distributor, not some fly by night.

No, I was told to go back every 6 to 8 weeks, but the customers were looking for value for money and I was selling expensive tat.

They see them all the time. You get teaser £1.99 orders from your best customers. They want to see if your coming back…. And when you do…kaching!!!

So what are you recommending, something different to the official kleeneze line?

Dividing your area up into 120 book areas. I don’t know how much time you spent analysing your immediate area but immediately im thinking TOO MUCH!!!

What, are you saying I thought about it too much?

It doesn’t sound as if you’ve said to your sponsor “I need to earn £x, what do I need to do” Im not going to ask who he is because your probably going to tell me you don’t know or cant remember!!!!

I did ask, and got told "You've got 120 books, put them out and return for them 3 days later. Buy enough books to allow you to put out 120 per day for 3 days then go back and collect the first batch. You'll make a fortune!

You say the only way you can make money is………etc… Nonsense.


No it's not.


EVERYTHING must be governed by what YOU want to earn AND the time you have available.

I had all the time in the world and just wanted to earn enough to feed myself. It still didn't work because people didn't order.


Next

Sorry but the rest of what you said is b*llocks and I'm going to bed now.

prosaver

pleaze help how do you insert a picture in your reply

petestan

prosaver wrote: »

pleaze help how do you insert a picture in your reply

As far as I know, go to advanced settings, click on insert image 4th from the right on the top, 2nd row down or 2nd from the right in quick reply.