Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Peter_Pan

Lady_Python wrote: »

Good question. Why indeed nearly 2 years.

Every time I voiced concerns to the upline, I got told to put out more books, cover more streets - all, of course, paid for out of my pocket with extra books etc. which as any Kleeneze agent knows, the books are not cheap.

I was made to feel it was MY fault that Kleeneze wasn't working.

I ended up running at a loss, it put a strain on my marriage and the only ones benefitting from the whole thing were the upline.

Even when Kleeneze were in dire straights and the memo was on their agent's site for all to see, the upline still lied by saying there was nothing to worry about - then the Farepak bubble burst and the rest is history.

As far as I know, the upline are still doing it and still suckering people into this glorified scam.

You bet I hate Kleeneze. I have every cause to and so do many others caught out by this lie.

I've started doing Avon now because at my age, despite many years experience, I find I can't get a normal job. The difference this time is no-one has said I will earn loads of money. No false promises - and it's a product I've been using myself for over 30 years.

I would like to build it up but I'm not expecting great things. It gives me something to do. I am not cut out to be a stay at home wife - at least a few weeks is fine, but boredom was setting in and I had to find something to do.

Perhaps the hardest part of doing Avon is not buying everything I like.

I...must...desist...LOL

I had a similar Kleeneze experience Lady Python but think its the way its promoted and sold on the big cheques which has been its downfall.

Lady_Python

Peter_Pan wrote: »

I have to want to order the products myself before i can give my heart and soul to a Business and with Kleeneze i couldn't.

That's how I felt too. I didn't have confidence in a lot of the products and customers pick up on that.

I had a good week with some really good orders. One order was not far off 3 figures - and the whole lot was returned. The main item wasn't quite what the customer wanted although it was clearly explained in the book, and two out of three of the other items she'd ordered didn't work. As two were the same, and one intended as a gift, the customer returned the lot. Understandable really, if one was poorly made and didn't even work, then the other was probably the same. That really was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Then there was problems with the couriers. If I remember correctly, that particular company went bust. To this day, I still have a box waiting to be uplifted to go back to Kleeneze. Despite telling them until I am blue in the face, they have never sent anyone for them.

If Kleeneze went down the pan tomorrow, I'm afraid I would laugh my socks off!!!

Honest_John_666

petestan wrote: »

Hi John, I check prices between the two every now and again and they seem similarly priced to me, Kleeneze are more expensive on some items and Betterware are more expensive on others, I would put it more like 60 - 40 to Betterware. Having said that I don't think I have checked prices since our recent price rise.

As I have said previously I agree on the 12 months guarantee but what can I do about it, it's a pain having to send something back for Kleeneze to refund because it's been over 90 days and I can't refund the customer luckily it doesn't happen to often.

I suspect part of the reason for people being more upset about Kleeneze is the fact that there are no territories so someone may never see a book whereas someone else may see 2 or 3 a week from different distributors and they may never see a Betterware book.

The sticker idea posted by bloosom is a good idea but it would have to be a new one saying "No catalogues wanted" or something as loads of my customers have the "no doorstep sellers" sticker on their door / window at present but obviously they want a kleeneze cat.

As for gavin scott I don't think he is a multi millionaire but I have no idea, I think generally what he says in his emails is he earns what a multi millionaire would earn on interest in the bank and has the lifestyle of one if you know what I mean, it's hard to explain. He used to be a shipyard Blacksmith so I would say he is probably not very good at explaining things that well.

No I didn't go to Hong Kong that is the 1st company one Gavin has been on in a while I think, but I'm not sure.

The suggestion that the top earners should all pool together and buy out Kleeneze, well like everyone else, except bigger, they all have big houses, holiday homes abroad, fancy holidays and numerous cars, horses, etc. so I suspect they wouldn't be able to even if Findel wanted to sell and anyway they would probably want to alter the system to make themselves more money which would probably mean the lower people would lose out and leave. They are probably happy with it as it is now they get their monthly cheques for thousands of pounds and don't owe the banks millions.

Kleeneze's operating profit was £6.3 million to April 2010.

http://www.findel.co.uk/wps/wcm/connect/e642b3004359bddbbee6be2ab1bb6a02/Findel+plc+Preliminary+Results+2010+FINAL+20-07-10.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=e642b3004359bddbbee6be2ab1bb6a02


Cheers, Pete.

Pete :beer: ........out of interest........I think I read somewhere that the sales period you are currently in is the best one of the year. How are you finding it year on year this year..... if you know what I mean

Do you hear how the company is actually getting on sales wise & do you have any facts n figures to back this up???

You put up a great blog from Gavin Scott once before which you were personally about half way up the ladder, have you got an updated report???

Thanks again for all your replies which I find as a bore I am.... fascinating

Regards
John

Honest_John_666

Lady_Python wrote: »

That's how I felt too. I didn't have confidence in a lot of the products and customers pick up on that.

I had a good week with some really good orders. One order was not far off 3 figures - and the whole lot was returned. The main item wasn't quite what the customer wanted although it was clearly explained in the book, and two out of three of the other items she'd ordered didn't work. As two were the same, and one intended as a gift, the customer returned the lot. Understandable really, if one was poorly made and didn't even work, then the other was probably the same. That really was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Then there was problems with the couriers. If I remember correctly, that particular company went bust. To this day, I still have a box waiting to be uplifted to go back to Kleeneze. Despite telling them until I am blue in the face, they have never sent anyone for them.

If Kleeneze went down the pan tomorrow, I'm afraid I would laugh my socks off!!!

Same here LP


I've been told that the quality of the product can sometimes be a concern for Betterware also. Apparantly if they have a product in the book that they either run out of stock on or have been let down by their supplier they will always source where possible a higher price similar product & charge the same as a cost to themselves.

I think what I've been also told is that if a customer buys something for £1.99 & its rubbish in their opinion, that they will in most cases loose the customer. So even though Betterware will offer a no quibble no back guarantee on all products they acknowledge that they can't please everyone.

The products in my opinion are low value products affordable to every day people

Demographics will always say certian types of people will shop where ever they want to based on the type of perosn & what that type of person can afford

Bottom line again is........ there's not a lot you can loose if you take on a Betterware opportunity & by the lack of responses we are getting theres only 1 clear winner in this thread

Regards to all :rotfl:
John

Ypaymore

This recently posted spoof job description made me smile.:D

"Wanted: Kleeneze distributors.

- 60p + per hour part time or full time possible.

- Commision based income selling cheap shoddy tat at inflated prices to vulnerable people who aren't able to go to shops themselves.

- Ability to put on sad face an advantage to ensure orders from good samaritans.

- Willingness to continually spend money on expensive boxes of catalogues to give random people an excuse to take their rubbish out.

- Thick skin or hearing problems advantageous when picking up catalogues from random drops.

- Must be willing to travel at least once per fortnight to partake in brainwashing activities where a variety of copyrighted works will be for sale burned onto blank CD or DVD media in order to provide uplines with beer money.

- Regular social activities involving walking up and down car parks placing cards on windscreens and trying to look inconspicuous in front of security guards.

Experience preferred in the defacement of bus stops, telephone boxes, traffic signs, etc.

- Experience in recruitment would be advantageous though not required as full training will be provided in the art of exageration and telling lies whilst keeping a straight face so long as you attend our regular brainwashing sessions along with the rest of the local cult.

- Social skills essential. Must be able to appear friendly and outgoing to fellow cult members whilst shunning unbelievers including those related by blood. This will become easier when you have exhausted your warm market as once you have no friends left there will be nobody left to shun. Don't let this concern you as your fellow cult members will forever be your friends so long as you attend every brainwashing session and do not stray from the path."


Source http://www.squidoo.com/kleeneze

geordie_joe

Ypaymore wrote: »

This recently posted spoof job description made me smile.:D

It may be a spoof job description, but it's the truest thing I've read about kleeneze........EVER!!!!

petestan

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

Pete :beer: ........out of interest........I think I read somewhere that the sales period you are currently in is the best one of the year. How are you finding it year on year this year..... if you know what I mean

Do you hear how the company is actually getting on sales wise & do you have any facts n figures to back this up???

You put up a great blog from Gavin Scott once before which you were personally about half way up the ladder, have you got an updated report???

Thanks again for all your replies which I find as a bore I am.... fascinating

Regards
John

Hi John, here is the (link removed) to Gavin Scott's website although last time I put it up I got accused of trying to pitch people into joining, why the heck would I want anyone to join through him it's of absolutely no benefit to me. It's easily found via google it's a public site, just click on sales figures down the left and you will see the company figures for everyone not just Gavin's group.

We are currently halfway through the 4 weekly period in my group and things seemed quiet to me but checking Gavin's figures I did better in period 11 2010 (period just gone) than last year. What I generally find is that now Bonfire night is over and done with people start thinking about Xmas and the orders tend to get bigger and better from now until around a week before Xmas.

The Xmas catalogue launching earlier this year may have an effect we shall see.

All we get told off the company is the stuff they want us to hear, but you can compare this years and previous years figures on Gavin's site.

onceuponatim

Interesting thread and not one I was expecting to see on here tbh.
I’ve felt a little out my depth reading some of the other threads and finding some experts with some good advice. Thankfully the same can not be said here.
Whilst I cant comment on anyone’s experiences I can only say what’s happened to me.
I’ve looked at the majority of stories about this happened and that happened and that got returned etc etc…. Its happened to me. I could either quit because the cheese grater is complete crap or carry on and build a huge business…

And its very difficult to encapsulate 11 years (plus experience with other companies) into one reasonably abridged post. I take a no nonsense approach when building my business and just because ANYONE CAN do this, I don’t want ANYONE joining my team and wasting my time

I’ve been involved with Kleeneze since 1999 and have a business that turns over approx £500k per annum. Note I say business and not job.
I’ve not actively done anything for that last 5 years and have a pension of approx 2k a month.

Many who struggle with kleeneze fail to treat it like a business and get caught up in the £ per hour drama. They never register their business legally and take advantage of the legitimate tax advantages of running your own business. And for those that want a long term business, they need to be willing to learn the ropes from the ground up.
Many like the idea of the big bucks but are only comfortable putting out catalogs and get bogged down with the drudgery of full time cataloguing
(Its not all that bad – I know people earning £3k a month from making catalogs a full time job)
But again, MOST people shouldn’t be self employed – they need a boss to kick their butt. But rather than hold their hand up, they will blame the catalogs, the product prices, the weather, the car, the fuel prices, blah blah blah
At the end of the day, if everyone did Kleeneze successfully (or indeed any other homebased business) who would fly the planes, drive the trains, wait on tables, serve in bars…….

I say to people if you want £5 per hour straight away, then go stack shelves in Tesco.
I also ask people to be honest with me and Ill be honest with them. There is no point in saying you want 5k a month but are only willing to work 5hrs a week.

YES, there are people who do tell "lies" but I’ve found its because they don’t really understand how the payplan works. There are those that will lie about what they do and when they do it.

You can blame, justify or take responsibility
And sadly, like any industry, there are those that are unscrupulous. Some will take advantage


With regards to Gavin Scott. He has had checks in the region of 40k per month and I think his current are running around 25k, I may be wrong. I’ve not seen the checks recently but understand the complexities of the payplan enough to be able to calculate his earnings.
I think there was a comment about his intellect – low blow. Yes, hes not the sharpest tool in the box and is dyslexic… Woopy do!!! Good luck to the guy I say.
He is on his first conference for a long time. He has only recently moved up a few more levels. Their were many people at a higher status than Gavin without necessarily earning more. That is one HUGE benefit of Kleeneze. It does not matter WHEN you start. Its what you do with it. Anyone starting today, can still achieve the top level of the payplan. Its not an overnight thing.

Kleeneze is one part of the multi billion dollar global industry that is Direct Shopping / Network Marketing. There is no doubt that that industry works.

Rob Forster used to say Kleeneze works, its people that don’t. I agree. And it’s the same with ANY of the other companies out there.
People leave and join other companies all the time - both ways. It always baffles me. But then again, I know people that will sit with a company for decades, not making any money, but happy in the knowledge that they can buy the goods for 20% discount.
You will never change that mindset.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Honest_John_666

onceuponatim wrote: »

Interesting thread and not one I was expecting to see on here tbh.
I’ve felt a little out my depth reading some of the other threads and finding some experts with some good advice. Thankfully the same can not be said here.
Whilst I cant comment on anyone’s experiences I can only say what’s happened to me.
I’ve looked at the majority of stories about this happened and that happened and that got returned etc etc…. Its happened to me. I could either quit because the cheese grater is complete crap or carry on and build a huge business…

And its very difficult to encapsulate 11 years (plus experience with other companies) into one reasonably abridged post. I take a no nonsense approach when building my business and just because ANYONE CAN do this, I don’t want ANYONE joining my team and wasting my time

I’ve been involved with Kleeneze since 1999 and have a business that turns over approx £500k per annum. Note I say business and not job.
I’ve not actively done anything for that last 5 years and have a pension of approx 2k a month.

Many who struggle with kleeneze fail to treat it like a business and get caught up in the £ per hour drama. They never register their business legally and take advantage of the legitimate tax advantages of running your own business. And for those that want a long term business, they need to be willing to learn the ropes from the ground up.
Many like the idea of the big bucks but are only comfortable putting out catalogs and get bogged down with the drudgery of full time cataloguing
(Its not all that bad – I know people earning £3k a month from making catalogs a full time job)
But again, MOST people shouldn’t be self employed – they need a boss to kick their butt. But rather than hold their hand up, they will blame the catalogs, the product prices, the weather, the car, the fuel prices, blah blah blah
At the end of the day, if everyone did Kleeneze successfully (or indeed any other homebased business) who would fly the planes, drive the trains, wait on tables, serve in bars…….

I say to people if you want £5 per hour straight away, then go stack shelves in Tesco.
I also ask people to be honest with me and Ill be honest with them. There is no point in saying you want 5k a month but are only willing to work 5hrs a week.

YES, there are people who do tell "lies" but I’ve found its because they don’t really understand how the payplan works. There are those that will lie about what they do and when they do it.

You can blame, justify or take responsibility
And sadly, like any industry, there are those that are unscrupulous. Some will take advantage


With regards to Gavin Scott. He has had checks in the region of 40k per month and I think his current are running around 25k, I may be wrong. I’ve not seen the checks recently but understand the complexities of the payplan enough to be able to calculate his earnings.
I think there was a comment about his intellect – low blow. Yes, hes not the sharpest tool in the box and is dyslexic… Woopy do!!! Good luck to the guy I say.
He is on his first conference for a long time. He has only recently moved up a few more levels. Their were many people at a higher status than Gavin without necessarily earning more. That is one HUGE benefit of Kleeneze. It does not matter WHEN you start. Its what you do with it. Anyone starting today, can still achieve the top level of the payplan. Its not an overnight thing.

Kleeneze is one part of the multi billion dollar global industry that is Direct Shopping / Network Marketing. There is no doubt that that industry works.

Rob Forster used to say Kleeneze works, its people that don’t. I agree. And it’s the same with ANY of the other companies out there.
People leave and join other companies all the time - both ways. It always baffles me. But then again, I know people that will sit with a company for decades, not making any money, but happy in the knowledge that they can buy the goods for 20% discount.
You will never change that mindset.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Great first post once upon a tim......So your Tim Pace are you???

Who invited you on this thread then???

Sounds like your another good guy from what you write & yes of course we cannot qualify what you write, thats 2 of you

Any other pearls of wisdon you wish to share with us???

Regards
John

Honest_John_666

petestan wrote: »

Hi John, here is the link to Gavin Scott's website although last time I put it up I got accused of trying to pitch people into joining, why the heck would I want anyone to join through him it's of absolutely no benefit to me. It's easily found via google it's a public site, just click on sales figures down the left and you will see the company figures for everyone not just Gavin's group.

We are currently halfway through the 4 weekly period in my group and things seemed quiet to me but checking Gavin's figures I did better in period 11 2010 (period just gone) than last year. What I generally find is that now Bonfire night is over and done with people start thinking about Xmas and the orders tend to get bigger and better from now until around a week before Xmas.

The Xmas catalogue launching earlier this year may have an effect we shall see.

All we get told off the company is the stuff they want us to hear, but you can compare this years and previous years figures on Gavin's site.

Thanks Pete. :T

The figures quoted are from a 4 week period & they eqate to what in actual sales???

You would like to think sales should go up @ this time of the year but you say not yet, which to me is very surprising

Thanks again my Kleeneze friend :rotfl:

Regards
John