Kleeneeze or Betterware?

rappa_2

If you are gonna sell e.g. Betterware and Avon it's probably best not to put both books out at the same time cos punters only have so much money to spend.

Doing both is perfectly above board and perfectly ethical, however from my experience make more money for your efforts with Betterware than Avon.

A comparison of the two from my experience:

Betterware:
-Average customer order circa £12.00
-A steady earner all year round
- No joining fee
- Catalogues are free
- All stationery is free
- Commission is flat 20% at Distributor level (minimum £50 order per week). TSA's earn a higher %'age
- The catalogue does the selling for you
- Out of stocks aren't a major issue (generally less than 5%) and communication is quite good on when stock is due in.

Avon:
- Average customer order circa £10.00
- Highly seasonal
- You pay to join
- You pay for catalogues
- You pay for samples, bags, you name it you pay for it!!
- Commission is banded (up to 25%) at rep level
- The catalogue does the selling for you but Avon try to kid you that you need samples as well
- Out of stocks are a major headache (up to 20%) and communication is hit and miss on when stock is due in

I'll answer any questions anyone asks me with 100% honesty.

littlegemlettuce

I have just started doing kleeneze but finding it difficult after 2 wks of putting out catalogues with how bad my arthritis is, I have had £200 orders both wks but its hard, I was thinking of quitting but was wandering if I still had to pay the next 3 installments of £45 , I will have to wait and see, its took me hours , well most of the afternoon to change the day slips into the catalogues.

Honest_John_666

Good luck lettuce you'll need it & check your contract which will have I believe the min of a 14 day cooling off period

Short answer is YES you will have to pay!!! Hope you know about the other charges too!

GOOD LUCK to you

Should've done your research........ WORD ON THE STREET is that Kleeneze are approx 24% down on sales YET AGAIN. This must be about 10 years in a row that their sales have fallen :eek:

Findel will be releasing their statement soon so all will be confirmed. Lets see if I'm right

Where are all the KLZ uplines :rotfl:

NEVER a better time to join Kleeneze :rotfl:

BTW..... Betterware sales are above last year.....FACT!

SandraN50

Hey John again, its me Sandra50. My previous email address got deleted by yahoo for inactive :mad: so I wasn't able to log back in my account on here as I lost my password.

Sorry for my long inactivity. I had to have a operation and I wasn't able to come on here since for a while. I just had a quick look at everything that was posted since I was inactive.

mattcanary wrote: »

Well, if they did ban the group then it wasn;t a permanent one.


They have been back advertising on UJM.
I know - I replied to an advert (without realising who they were).


I have received an email this morning inviting me to watch a video (without teling me it was for Kleeneze in the email).
I watched the video and it was for Kleeneze.

I did manage to see the adverts before I went into my operation and I did reply to it to see who it was. It wasn't the guys that did the advert before. Turns out the first adverts came from the top man of the Red group <- that was confirmed by the guy that made that advert.

Well good news according to UJM, they are offering a 3 month trial and they are removing all kleeneze and other mlm adverts made by the spammers and only Head office can post the advert.

rappa wrote: »

A comparison of the two from my experience:

Betterware:
-Average customer order circa £12.00
-A steady earner all year round
- No joining fee
- Catalogues are free
- All stationery is free
- Commission is flat 20% at Distributor level (minimum £50 order per week). TSA's earn a higher %'age
- The catalogue does the selling for you
- Out of stocks aren't a major issue (generally less than 5%) and communication is quite good on when stock is due in.

Avon:
- Average customer order circa £10.00
- Highly seasonal
- You pay to join
- You pay for catalogues
- You pay for samples, bags, you name it you pay for it!!
- Commission is banded (up to 25%) at rep level
- The catalogue does the selling for you but Avon try to kid you that you need samples as well
- Out of stocks are a major headache (up to 20%) and communication is hit and miss on when stock is due in

I'll answer any questions anyone asks me with 100% honesty.

Well I have a friend that did Avon and they said when they did it, it was free to join. You have some free (about 200) catalogues each time they release a new one. You would presume to buy extras anyway as you won't get all back. My friend said at the time, there was 30% of stuff out of stock. I presume it has slightly improved. Communication was poor (or non-existent) to the area managers/head office etc.

littlegemlettuce wrote: »

I have just started doing kleeneze but finding it difficult after 2 wks of putting out catalogues with how bad my arthritis is, I have had £200 orders both wks but its hard, I was thinking of quitting but was wandering if I still had to pay the next 3 installments of £45 , I will have to wait and see, its took me hours , well most of the afternoon to change the day slips into the catalogues.

Well from my kleeneze source, you do have 30 days from when you start if you wish to leave. You won't have to pay the £45 installments and you get the first payment back. However if you have £200 of orders each week for the first 2 weeks, then if you do £200 per week, you would get about £200 a month, which isn't bad compared to Jobseekers.


Interesting fact from one of my kleeneze sources. It seems according to my source that the higher people in kleeneze talk about recruiting more rather than retailing. Surely enough you would do both rather than focus on one. My source has said that is the major reason why the retail is going down. :rotfl:

Then again my other kleeneze source has said that there is a new thing that has taken off the last 3 weeks. Online selling through facebook. The MD of kleeneze had said that online selling has increased the turnover by £50K per week (reckon that is about £1 Million a year) and only 7% of the network is doing it.

Also nice to see you again John.

Honest_John_666

Hi Sandra

Nice to have someone contributing

The UJM is correct only the HQs can place adverts. With Betterware they have set areas so can target vacancies.

Again well done Kleeneze for ruining another public free to use site :mad:

Whatever rubbish you here from anyone worth listening to in Kleeneze you have to take with a pinch of salt. They will come out of all sorts of % & growth factors & untapped markets. Online with Facebook has be going on for years hardly a new selling concept is it

My sources tell me that KLZ are 24% behind sales fom last year. Findels report will be out soon. I'm not sure if Kleeneze have an MD. The last one got booted out as a cost cutting exercise as far as I know a few years ago?

Was out for a :beer: with my Betterware mate last night & he was telling me about KLZ rep stealing some books & orders in one of his areas. He was fuming & said he would deal with them himself. Hes not the type to me messed about with :cool: so looks like KLZ will be another rep short :rotfl:

oldharryrocks

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

My sources tell me that KLZ are 24% behind sales fom last year. Findels report will be out soon. I'm not sure if Kleeneze have an MD.

Its no secret they say it themselves in their post close trading statement.Buts its 24% for a part year.

" Kleeneze continues to underperform, with sales for the period 24% below prior year although the high variability of costs mitigates the impact on profits. Whilst service levels have recovered and distributor numbers have stabilised, sales per distributor are yet to improve. A number of new options are being trialled and evaluated to improve performance."

http://hsprod.investis.com/ir/fdl/ir.jsp?page=news_regulatory&article=1857880445681664

They dont have a MD as such its now run by a Sales Director and a Network Marketing Director . Who both i believe report to a main board director.

On Recent posts that come up on Facebook distributor suggest that Online is the new way forward for them.Since they got their own online sites. Your find their big item internet offers on quite a few selling pages.;)

I have just noticed the full year accounts are now available.Whole section dedicated to Kleeneze but heres the relevant bits.

Kleeneze’s performance has again deteriorated, with sales
declining 5.5% and operating profits* reducing by around
a third. Actions taken by management have slowed the rate
of decline as a whole versus the prior year, and the sales
productivity of distributors has increased, but the number
of active distributors has fallen by 27% during the year. The
business has achieved some success with initiatives designed
to improve the attractiveness of the proposition to customers,
although unexpected high levels of demand for certain new
or promoted product lines has led to recent stock availability
issues and a subsequent reduction of service levels leading to
significant further performance deterioration. Plans to address
service and recruitment issues have been developed with senior
distributor leaders and have been launched in earnest over the
last month to coincide with a new catalogue. Nonetheless
Kleeneze remains profitable* with attractive cash characteristics


http://www.findel.co.uk/wp-content/files/WEB_Findel-ra2014.pdf

SandraN50

Interesting link you posted oldharryrocks. Interesting bit I have noticed
"Whilst service levels have recovered and distributor numbers have stabilised, sales per distributor are yet to improve. A number of new options are being trialled and evaluated to improve performance."

We just have to see what the yearly report says but I think one of the major reasons kleeneze's sales are failing is the higher people always focusing on recruiting rather than retail.

I did visit up north to visit a friend this weekend and the hotel I was in was hosting one of the kleeneze meetings and I do admit I did go and see what their meetings are like.
Interesting enough there was 5 speakers. The meeting was from 7:30pm to about 9:30-ish.
First one was going through company slides, the usual business related techie stuff.
2nd sponsoring (no surprise there).
Third one was the highest retailer (this person won one of the trophies for highest retail in 2013/2014) speaking about how to retail high, (personally I think there should be more of this in the meeting).
4th was about more sponsoring + personal development training.
Last speaker was a guest speaker who was talking about their experience.

From that meeting I worked out that 70% was about sponsoring and 30% was about retailing. However personally I think it should have been about 75% retail and 25% sponsoring. The good thing is though they weren't force selling the cds etc. Just the "If you wish to buy any cds, they are at the tools table" message from the host.

Interesting stats though I got from the meeting;
Blue group- £1,712,223.14 sales in the last 4 weeks
Red group- £731,508.43 sales in the last 4 weeks.

The person I got those stats from, did admit to these stats being true and from HQ themselves. (though I don't believe him, I did end up looking them up on the kleeneze dsa page- bulk sales)- They are true.

Interesting enough, I have noticed the top people in each group, all sales have been decreasing. However when I did talk to the people at the meeting, it seems like what I believe is true. The higher people have been getting everyone to focus on sponsoring rather than retailing. However retailing earns more than double than what sponsoring does :eek:

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

The UJM is correct only the HQs can place adverts. With Betterware they have set areas so can target vacancies.

Again well done Kleeneze for ruining another public free to use site :mad:

Whatever rubbish you here from anyone worth listening to in Kleeneze you have to take with a pinch of salt. They will come out of all sorts of % & growth factors & untapped markets. Online with Facebook has be going on for years hardly a new selling concept is it

My sources tell me that KLZ are 24% behind sales fom last year. Findels report will be out soon. I'm not sure if Kleeneze have an MD. The last one got booted out as a cost cutting exercise as far as I know a few years ago?

Was out for a :beer: with my Betterware mate last night & he was telling me about KLZ rep stealing some books & orders in one of his areas. He was fuming & said he would deal with them himself. Hes not the type to me messed about with :cool: so looks like KLZ will be another rep short :rotfl:

Its rather than the greed and spam of certain kleeneze distributors that has caused the UJM to stop all mlm adverts. Kleeneze apparently has only heard of it recently however someone has flagged it up a few times before they had talked to UJM.

I agree with the online selling, but I think its more of the fact that they have only now started tracking online orders. Not to mention the leader of RED group has started the whole "online selling" explosion with kleeneze a few days ago.

Kleeneze has a Sales Director however I do believe it is a similar role to a Manager director. At least it was when I started working a long time ago. I heard different from other sources that the last MD got the sack as the kleeneze business didn't increase by 100% within 4 years. Apparently at the time it had stayed the same.

You do seem to like your :beer: . You should hang out with my husband. I think you two would get along.

I have heard from my sources too about stealing books from people in the same company as well as avon/betterware etc. Seems like it is greed, jealously and territorial etc. that causes this problems. Unfortunately in the area where my source lives, it is imposssible to find the person that does it as there are about 3 kleeneze distributors, 2 avon people and a betterware lad. Sometimes it is the local kids that steals the books.

Its a shame that the rogue kleeneze distributors that give the company a bad name though. Then again you get that in any company like the phone shops etc.

Also I got a friend that has got a degree in Psychology and interesting fact from her, is that kleeneze is doing some Psychology on their distributors. Everyone knows that you pay for catalogues however the reason is that if you pay for something, you are 180% more likely to treat it better and get the money back (or your money's worth). Same example if you bought your first car. So it turns out that by charging, they are expecting them to do the work. Interesting enough though, form my Kleeneze sources, when they trial ran the "free package". Turns out that only 15% of them placed an retail order. Whereas the paying for your catalogues gave a 95% of distributors making orders.

Another info from my source, kleeneze out of stock ratio has been decreasing from 30%(1990) to 25%(2000) to 10%( Now). so at least the stock issue is being resolved.

From my experience with kleeneze, they aren't a bad company however it could do with improvements though. If the leaders weren't focused on the sponsoring than the retail, then people wil learn more and retail more. If kleeneze would help with solving issues like stealing books, free books etc, then they wouldn't be getting bad reviews from people.

Honest_John_666

CRIKEY........two very long posts, I wish I could write that amount

The bottom line is this is about 10 years in a row that KLZ sales have gone backwards

The Findel report in part has the same words as last year. It seems Findel doesn't know hat to do with them. When they bought EHR they didn't buy the group for KLZ

If online is their way forward, then good luck to them, at least honest hard working guys from Betterware wont get their books stolen :mad:

Good point about books free/paid for. Thats obvious if you pay for them you'll look after them. The USP for Betterware it is & will remain FREE of any charges to join

Honest_John_666

oldharryrocks wrote: »

Its no secret they say it themselves in their post close trading statement.Buts its 24% for a part year.

" Kleeneze continues to underperform, with sales for the period 24% below prior year although the high variability of costs mitigates the impact on profits. Whilst service levels have recovered and distributor numbers have stabilised, sales per distributor are yet to improve. A number of new options are being trialled and evaluated to improve performance."

http://hsprod.investis.com/ir/fdl/ir.jsp?page=news_regulatory&article=1857880445681664

They dont have a MD as such its now run by a Sales Director and a Network Marketing Director . Who both i believe report to a main board director.

On Recent posts that come up on Facebook distributor suggest that Online is the new way forward for them.Since they got their own online sites. Your find their big item internet offers on quite a few selling pages.;)

I have just noticed the full year accounts are now available.Whole section dedicated to Kleeneze but heres the relevant bits.

Kleeneze’s performance has again deteriorated, with sales
declining 5.5% and operating profits* reducing by around
a third. Actions taken by management have slowed the rate
of decline as a whole versus the prior year, and the sales
productivity of distributors has increased, but the number
of active distributors has fallen by 27% during the year. The
business has achieved some success with initiatives designed
to improve the attractiveness of the proposition to customers,
although unexpected high levels of demand for certain new
or promoted product lines has led to recent stock availability
issues and a subsequent reduction of service levels leading to
significant further performance deterioration. Plans to address
service and recruitment issues have been developed with senior
distributor leaders and have been launched in earnest over the
last month to coincide with a new catalogue. Nonetheless
Kleeneze remains profitable* with attractive cash characteristics


http://www.findel.co.uk/wp-content/files/WEB_Findel-ra2014.pdf

Well........I is was spot on with my 24% down figure/quote wasnt I :cool: :rotfl:

24% down in the best selling period of the year for near enough any or every retailer.

Distributor numbers fallen how many :eek: Obvious that customer lists are kept & handed over to the stayers thats why the average order value per rep is high

I would say lets re-visit this next year because there has to be a time when a line has to be drawn under this failing company.

Never a better time to get out

Every KPI has been going backwards for years, it simply cant go on. KLZ product range has been propped up another one of Findels groups of companies, some gift company which is Findels biggest asset. Once their products have been exhausted what next?

Every sales trick/con has be used :mad:

Online is the way forward is it :rotfl: Think your about 10 years too late BUT at least its something to tell all the cult followers to do & this is the the way........ we are going to crack it....... Next year Rodders we'll be millionaires :rotfl:

What happened to the explosion in Germany & Holland. Whats happened to the next venture into Spain. Someone even said they were going into the USA :rotfl:

Just feel so sorry for all the people/their reps that believe all this rubbish.

The door is opening & the rope is being shortened

oldharryrocks

All the new leads direct to the company from interested parties are apparently farmed out to senior people to help them. The poor foot soldiers dont have a look in.