Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Honest_John_666

fair comment WW

The only thing I can add to this you could try Betterware as its completley free to get your books & stationary

Betterware = Different company & no hidden info

Please read your contract about delivery charges & minimum order levels. Check how much else you'd have to pay especaily just to order your goods

If youve already signed up with KLZ you do have a 14 day cool off period

Good Luck MummyBx2

DoctorDoom

Hi all

New user here. Before I comment on Kleeneze, let me thank everyone for their comments. Been useful.

What brought me here? Well, I needed a "spare time" income to cover some costs/expenses (i.e. study materials for adult education class).

So I did a search via Bing and came across this thread. And checked out the Kleeneze website. For those who have worked for Kleeneze, and not found it worked, I thank you because, after much research, I am convinced that by not pursuing it, I have saved myself a lot of money and time.

I became attracted to the opportunity (if it can be called that) not for riches, but for spare pocket money. I must admit, I was very skeptical when I read of people earning £7000+ per month for delivering catalogues. And stories of holidays, cars, etc. I am a naturally skeptical person, anyway, but a lot of it didn't sit right. Most disconcerting was the fact that opportunities in ads/leaflets never mentioned the word "Kleeneze"; it was always "money-making opportunity". I would have thought anyone looking to recruit others would want to mention the name.

Let me backtrack for a moment: I have seen Kleeneze catalogues. Never really been impressed. Most things seem much cheaper elsewhere. Other things seem superfluous (like a milk-bottle holder, I simply place my bottles on the doorstep). The only things that impressed me were novelty gifts (Xmas) which might have been suitable for kids. I didn't really think of it as being a viable opportunity, long-term. Customers might order one novelty gift, but not consistently, month after month.

But I digress. After reading all this, checking out the Kleeneze website itself and other blogs, I came to the conclusion it wasn't for me. I know I haven't tried it - and never will - but it just seemed unworkable as a career. And I doubt I'd have made enough money to cover things and pay for the things I wanted. He's what I had a problem with:

1.) A distributor I spoke to said it was a "numbers game" and that if you worked hard, you'd earn. Sorry, but one could drop 5,000 catalogues at 5,000 properties, but if 5,000 people aren't interested, then it won't work.

I worked in a telesales job for 4 weeks when I was at college. Double-glazing. Had managers saying "you have no excuse not to get two sales leads an hour". Bull. I rang numbers constantly, but if people don't want or can't afford windows, nothing I could do. Same with Kleeneze.

2.) Paying for this, paying for that, etc. Like a naive fool, I assumed your catalogues, stationery and other things would be free, but they weren't.

Someone told me that if I were a plumber, I'd expect to pay for tools. Sorry, not a valid comparison. One would expect to buy plumbing tools in order to fix toilets, but I would have thought the likes of Kleeneze could give you catalogues/stationery for free.

3.) Several distributors in one area. I couldn't believe this (my sister had done Avon, which I'm told was territorial, no overlap). It's hard enough to believe one could make money with Kleeneze at the best of times, but how could you if lots of people were working the same area? Seems counterproductive. It hasn't happened to me, but I'd wager a lot of people would be !!!!ed off if they were getting 4, 5 or more Kleeneze books through their letterbox.

4.) Income disproportionate to work. I don't mind hard work. However, the biggest disincentive for me was that I'd be the one delivering catalogues, but the majority of the money would be going to people at the top and my cut would be small.

Again, someone claimed that in most businesses, bosses earn more. Correct. However, here's the difference: in an office role I had, the manager worked VERY hard (he often had 10 minutes for lunch, was first in, last out). And it was equal in the sense that we were all working hard as part of a team, each one a "cog in the wheel". Like in a supermarket or factory.

With Kleeneze, well it seems wrong that distributors pound the pavements and do all the "donkey work" just for the profits to go to someone higher up the chain.

I don't know, none of it sounded real to me. Not even on a "pocket money basis". The guy I spoke to sounded rather religious in the way he tried to persuade me to give it a go (he rang me quite late one night, probably after 10pm). I did a leaflet delivery role one weekend. Hard work, 1000+ leaflets, but a guaranteed income. I was fine with that. I didn't see the point in pounding the pavements in the hope that one household out of hundreds might fancy buying a milk-bottle holder or something similar.

And, as I said, it was really off-putting watching US-style videos on the 'net with couples with perfect teeth talking about working a few hours, having cruises, waving cheques around, etc. And the guy I spoke to said something about £100,000+ wages. At that point - and I ain't the smartest guy - I thought, "This is bull." I don't have to be an economist or business leader to know that it seems impossible that, after one takes into account money spent and expenses, it could possibly be a proper way to earn some money. The products in the catalogue seem very niche and I just didn't believe the hype that there'd be repeat business, not for niche products.

Whatever Kleeneze said to me - and I feel my telesales days are a comparison in a sense - you can't FORCE people to buy. You could walk miles and miles and end up with blisters and bunions, but if people don't want to buy, they don't want to buy.

Thank you again. To all those who have done Kleeneze (and it took me 4 nights to read every post here), along with my own skepticism, I have decided against doing Kleeneze. I don't see it as a viable money-making opportunity to give me pocket money to help with my night school studying/expenses. An evening role or some more leaflet delivery work sounds far better.

Honest_John_666

Crikey DD great insight & you havent mentioned half the other charges to join also

Word on the street is they are still really struggling

Word on the street is Betterware are doing well enough that they will be giving away a car worth over 20 big ones & they are still free to join!!!

DoctorDoom

Thank you.

I was shocked at the difference between what this preacher-like 'representative' told me on the phone and what the reality was, based on a few nights' worth of research here and elsewhere.

Funny how the ads never seem to mention Kleeneze, it's always "money-making opportunity". Perhaps they know how off-putting the brand name is to some.

I'd have had more respect if the guy had said this:

"It's a bit of pocket money, quite a physical job, small cut from the products you sell. Lots of hard work."

Instead I got something like this:

"You can earn thousands a month, possibly even £100,000 a year if you put the catalogues through enough doors. It's a numbers game."

The maths didn't add up, to be honest. The town I live in has a population of 23,000+. Surely to make *much less* than £100,000 would require dropping catalogues off at 23,000+ households, assuming that anyone wanted to buy and assuming (a big if) that there wasn't overlap with other distributors.

And yet I had some guy telling me 150-250 books would get me an income of £100,000+ if I worked at it for a few months. I'm more likely to believe there's a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow!

Assuming that one was lucky enough to drop catalogues at 250 households where *every* occupier wanted something, I don't see how that could possibly equate to £100,000 a year. Absolute bull. It's obvious from the thread that MLM is how Kleeneze makes money.

Is there anything Kleeneze pays for? I mean, I couldn't believe it when I learnt that you pay to access a website. A website?! For goodness' sake, that *should* be free.

The adverts I saw (as part of my research) were laughable. Guys walking around in sunny weather with a small school-type bag. From what I've read, the reality is that a small bag isn't enough and that people used cars and trolleys.

I was sold a lie by the pushy guy who said "Welcome aboard" BEFORE I had agreed to do it. And when I made it clear I wasn't interested, he still rang and spouted crap about how 200+ catalogues would get me a big income. Not buying it.

As I said to him, and in my initial post, I was after pocket money. For helping me with my adult education studies. Hard work is fine by me. It has to be proportionate, though. I'm not traipsing around the streets just to earn a few pounds when someone happens to buy a pot or pan, only for the income to go to the people at the top.

I shall now look for other additional ways of earning income to help me with my studies.

Honest_John_666

DD........ well done for doing your research. It isn't difficult to do with the internet available for most nowadays

Unfortunately there are probably still people who get sucked into the cult which as you've worked out is completley full of lies & liars

Findel will produce their next lot of interim results end of Nov & there you will see the true facts of the KLZ business

If you've read through all these pages, then you would've missed quite a few which had to be deleted because we have had the very odd cult follower jopin the thread & spout even more complete rubbish than the norm :rotfl:

I'm more pro Betterware, google it, it'll tell you the role & its free to do. Cant make a lot but its free to do when you like. The managers make a decent amount pro rata

good luck

DoctorDoom

Thank you.

I think the slightly appealing thing about Betterware is that various sites, reps and forums aren't promising riches; there are no people with perfect white teeth waving around £100,000+ cheques and talking about cruises; and there are no people claiming you'll get £800+ a month from 50+ catalogues.

Nothing in any of Kleeneze's literature adds up mathematically. I did have one rep say they made £60m sales last year. Of course they did! When they're charging their reps for catalogues and website access, of course they are gonna make easy money like that if enough naive people sign up.

I will try Betterware, thanks. They don't seem to be promising the Earth.

Honest_John_666

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

One rep made £60M in sales :eek: Yeah righto..........

Taken from Findel

2014 Performance Review
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Revenue for the year fell by 5.5% to £46.5m, with the gross profit margin falling from 69.2% to 66.8% in part due to promotional activity around product and catalogue sales. Trading costs reduced by 7.1% to £29.8m. The operating profit* reduced by £0.7m to £1.3m. The continuing decline within Kleeneze has also led us to reduce its carrying value, arising from the group’s acquisition of the business in October 2006, by £3.8m through an exceptional impairment charge.
Work undertaken during the year to improve the proposition had a good effect, with a marked increase in sales per ordering distributor. However, in recent months high levels of unexpected demand for newly introduced or promoted product has led to stock availability issues with a knock-on impact on service levels, restraining sales and recruitment and leading to a significant further deterioration. A significant fall in the absolute number of active distributors during the year was due to the withdrawal of the Break Free recruitment channel (where distributors could join for free with a small number of catalogues). It has also become clear that the mix of recruits between those who are seeking a very short term earnings increase and those who are looking for a significant longer-term opportunity, coupled with insufficient activity within the network on new distributor training, has led to a continued strong decline in overall distributor numbers. However, the business has seen an increased level of productivity arising amongst its motivated, longer term network of distributors. New incentives for distributors were brought in as a pilot in March 2014 together with an improved order management process to address stock availability issues. These measures have been launched in earnest over the last month in conjunction with a new catalogue and we are closely monitoring results. The business remains profitable* with attractive cash generation characteristics.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]* before exceptional items

[/FONT][/FONT]

DoctorDoom

Once again, nothing adds up.

There are a lot of Kleeneze reps with websites. Only they never mention Kleeneze. Not directly. It's in the small print somewhere, but just like with newspaper ads/billboards, it's always this: "money-making opportunity".

Surely if Kleeneze didn't have such a negative reputation, their brand name would be at the forefront of every ad?

I mentioned telesales in my initial post. Lots of ads here. At least they mention the name of the double-glazing company. They don't hide it.

If I ran a business and was proud of it, I'd be asking all distributors to put the name of the brand/company on *all* ads. In my experience/research, no-one wants to mention the Kleeneze brand name until you push them and until they've spouted their rubbish about £7,500 a month for delivering 200+ catalogues.

Honest_John_666

Couldn't agree more DD

The trouble is the lies. There is no doubt they have a good few people. There is no doubt the ones right at the top are still earning very good money

I'm intererested in what they're going to do next

Sales plummeting, the KLZ name is like mud or other stuff & there surely had to be a point where Findel will lose patience with them & the business model. Findel are using KLZ to sell some of there other group products & if they didn't do that then they'll be in a worse state

FACTS will be end of Nov. I do have inside knowledge & good riddance to the company

DoctorDoom

You're right, it is the lies.

As I said before, my sister did Avon for a bit. I asked her about this. Avon, like Betterware, didn't promise her riches and £100,000+ salaries. They promised her pocket money. That's all people ask for, integrity. And transparency.

I did start to wonder if Kleeneze bags, that the reps carry around, were like the TARDIS as I was told 250+ catalogues were needed yet the silly ads all over the internet featured one person carrying a very small bag (always in nice weather!). The bags, like the TARDIS, must be bigger on the inside.

The reality is, from what I've been told, is that trolleys and cars were a must eventually.