Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Jeanetteathome

Should_be_out_gardening wrote: »

No of course it isn't but what is suspect for many who have been hurt by Kleeneze is people popping up saying they put out a small amount of books , easily with no hassle, made shedloads of money and it's all gone swimmingly. It just sets alarm bells ringing, kleeneze has a truly atrocious reputation for lying and deceit . it's the fault of kleeneze itself along with big earning distribuotars that go round the net posting how good it all is.

To my shame I too posted here saying how good it was , I had just started and it seemed OK but after a very short while I realised it wasn't. I too started out on foot but after just 2 weeks I found I was so far from home it was taking longer to trudge out with the books let alone going back time and again to get lost ones. Of course using the car costs money and I just wasn't making any money . Once I put out 200 books and got just £37 in orders , the people I met were very nice but they just weren't interested , they even said they'd rather go to the shops - we have several Bargain shops in town. People were friendly and I really tried but it just wouldn't pay for itself.

Couple that with going to meetings to be told how wonderful it is - they regularly rolled out people telling fabulous stories of going out with 10 books and getting hundreds of pounds of orders , all on foot with X amount of kids in tow and it made me and others feel like right failures. Of course this was until I got friendly with a few people there in the team , found we had things in common and the truth came out - the lying about how long things took, the fact that huge orders shown included one off massive orders never repeated and were months if not years old. They always rolled out this or that new person but after a few meetings they weren't there again and people got frankly rather unpleasant when I inquired after them.

After a while I realised I was in a web of deceit and had lied even to myself - it would get better tomorrow, if they could do it so could I, perhaps I *was* negative like they said. But no , I realised with the help of frankly wiser heads in my family ( who I had been asked to recruit , then when they wouldn't and I told upline what they had said , I ws told to *ignore* them) that this whole thing was a charade. It used to work but frankly only a tiny handful make any money now either on the books or recruiting . I at least have tried it and my area was poor , I did my best .

Coming back to this site I realised I wasn't alone nor was my experiences in anyway unique to me, since moving on I have met other who have done it including a guy who got to gold and did huge retail like Morethanconcerned and everything he told me months ago rings true to what I read here. Jeanette has been supportive and understands the idea that you can bee all for it and think it;s OK then *see the light* as it were.

Now you've said you've done this for years before - you *must* therefore realise where everyone is coming from , you *know* full well how this game is played, you know how they spring on any good story and omit fine detail and use it to * encourage* others, most of the time it just makes others feel awful and hopeless. You are very lucky to have a good area, and great that you have fallen on your feet , but you MUST realise that you are very very lucky and that for the vast majority of people sucked into this it's NOTHING like your experiences . You have to see how it comes across , given how hurt and bitter many feel, I feel bitter even after all this time , you can't honestly expect to get anything but a negative reaction can you? To make out that it's all due to personality is just wrong and upsetting , I work with lots of people gardening and some bought from me , it's nothing to do with any of that and everything to do with the stuff not being what people need or want nowadays and being too expensive. For others who know very little to echo this point is hurtful and pointless too. It's just a daft thing to propose and the sort of thing kleeneze would say to make people fall in line and feel small, it's horrible actually.

From your posts and your own admittance to trying many things it seems you are searching for something and thats good but to come to a place filled with people upset and angry then wonder why they don't embrace you is rather self explanatory isn't it? what did you expect? Futhermore , and don't take this the wrong way , you'd be better off getting a good nights sleep to help you with the things you want to do rather than posting here in the early hours of the morning. Just a thought.

It's always lovely to see you around here 'gardening. Thats an insightful post, I shall never forget those meetings and the voicemail stuff they did. Some new person would have a good week and they'd trumpet them as the second coming, a few weeks later quiet enquiries as to their whereabouts (you couldn't ask the uplines they'd get stroppy) and I'd find they'd given up and their supposed good fortune masked dreadful book losses and incomplete orders that they'd had endless trouble with.

It is a bit much here having to argue the toss with folk who have all but a weeks experience of kleeneze , they may trumpet their own goings on with some company few have heard of or care about but it doesn't give them any insight whatsoever into Kleeneze. They only post here so they get reciprocal support on the wikkianaio (god knows how it's spelt , never heard of it before) thread.

PatrickD

Jeanetteathome wrote: »

It's always lovely to see you around here 'gardening. Thats an insightful post, I shall never forget those meetings and the voicemail stuff they did. Some new person would have a good week and they'd trumpet them as the second coming, a few weeks later quiet enquiries as to their whereabouts (you couldn't ask the uplines they'd get stroppy) and I'd find they'd given up and their supposed good fortune masked dreadful book losses and incomplete orders that they'd had endless trouble with.

It is a bit much here having to argue the toss with folk who have all but a weeks experience of kleeneze , they may trumpet their own goings on with some company few have heard of or care about but it doesn't give them any insight whatsoever into Kleeneze. They only post here so they get reciprocal support on the wikkianaio (god knows how it's spelt , never heard of it before) thread.

You're right, very few have heard of it, but they will and just think of the advantages of being involved when so few have heard of it!

Btw, as regards people's experience with Kleeneze, take a look at their Facebook pages you'll see plenty of upbeat, positive posts on there (of course, you'll say they're lying).

Happy Christmas!

Pat

Jeanetteathome

PatrickD wrote: »

There goes my point entirely. Because I have a view on Kleeneze and network marketing, suddenly I'm recruiting!! Well, I'm not (notice the lack of any links...its a dead giveaway!). I know what you're doing, accuse us of recruiting then hopefully we get banned.
What you really want is a thread where everyone thinks that Kleeneze is scum, like you. Debate and discussion doesnt work like that, people have different opinions and those opinions should be respected. I have no problem with you thinking they're scum, but I dont agree with your opinion.

Pat

Well thats all well and good but your case isn't helped by telling people they failed at kleeneze when your own work with kleeneze was by your own words a week or so. It might be MLM but thats where the similarity ends. It's nothing about liking the products - there are thousands of kleeneze products stretched over several books, it's not about being _nice_ or having the right kind of personality. It's about putting out books and people ordering, this is how Kleeneze is sold both to the public and the distributors they recruit. No selling needed, people are delighted with the products and they can't resist browsing and buying from the books. Thats what is said at recruitment.

They say that you only need 5 new recruits doing £1000 a month to reach gold, so easy , just five people stepping out with a jolly smile with their books and the orders will flood in.

Well it's not like that in the real world, it's a bloody nightmare and costs a fortune to do. I may as well looking back have bought the products out of my own purse, took them round to peoples houses and given them away for all the money I made.

You really have no idea of the things involved to be making the comments you have, you can make them of course but don't get annoyed when it's thrown back at you for your lack of understanding.

PatrickD

Jeanetteathome wrote: »

Well thats all well and good but your case isn't helped by telling people they failed at kleeneze when your own work with kleeneze was by your own words a week or so. It might be MLM but thats where the similarity ends. It's nothing about liking the products - there are thousands of kleeneze products stretched over several books, it's not about being _nice_ or having the right kind of personality. It's about putting out books and people ordering, this is how Kleeneze is sold both to the public and the distributors they recruit. No selling needed, people are delighted with the products and they can't resist browsing and buying from the books. Thats what is said at recruitment.

They say that you only need 5 new recruits doing £1000 a month to reach gold, so easy , just five people stepping out with a jolly smile with their books and the orders will flood in.

Well it's not like that in the real world, it's a bloody nightmare and costs a fortune to do. I may as well looking back have bought the products out of my own purse, took them round to peoples houses and given them away for all the money I made.

You really have no idea of the things involved to be making the comments you have, you can make them of course but don't get annoyed when it's thrown back at you for your lack of understanding.

By the way, maybe I didn't mention it before, but I FAILED at Kleeneze.
Never mind if I gave it a week, a month or a year, I joined to make it work and quickly saw that I wouldn't, so I FAILED. My lack of success in the company was solely down to me because I gave it up. I don't blame the company or others, it was my fault and it really doesn't hurt me to say so. What I did though, was move on and not spend the rest of my life blaming others or the company. So don't get so upset when I say that others failed, I did it myself and I'm not scared or too embarrassed to admit it.

Pat

Jeanetteathome

PatrickD wrote: »

You're right, very few have heard of it, but they will and just think of the advantages of being involved when so few have heard of it!

Btw, as regards people's experience with Kleeneze, take a look at their Facebook pages you'll see plenty of upbeat, positive posts on there (of course, you'll say they're lying).

Happy Christmas!

Pat

There you go again - you have no idea how Kleeneze works or the mindset of those that do this . WHAT do you THINK they are going to put on their FB advertising pages? Really? think it over.

We on the other hand KNOW full well what these people are capable of. I was less cynical from the start than many here so I did all the meetings and seminars, once you get right in with these people it would make you cringe at what they used to say you should do and say to sign people up.

Only someone not involved with kleeneze wouldn't be able to see the facebook advertising pages for what they are , they thrive on this sort of stuff.

Shame you fell for it .

Jeanetteathome

PatrickD wrote: »

By the way, maybe I didn't mention it before, but I FAILED at Kleeneze.
Never mind if I gave it a week, a month or a year, I joined to make it work and quickly saw that I wouldn't, so I FAILED. My lack of success in the company was solely down to me because I gave it up. I don't blame the company or others, it was my fault and it really doesn't hurt me to say so. What I did though, was move on and not spend the rest of my life blaming others or the company. So don't get so upset when I say that others failed, I did it myself and I'm not scared or too embarrassed to admit it.

Pat

You did it for a week or so - thats what you said , you said you *didn't like the products* thats what you said. So you didn't give it over 18 months like me , or the three years like Morthathan or the 12 months like Gardening. You never even tried it properly.

But on the basis of that not doing it you feel able to label others failures on some semantic choice of words. Plus you feel they should *move on* and stop Blaming others - two points here. Discussion of it here on a specific thread does not mean people haven't *moved on* and given our experiences we KNOW whose fault it all was. YOU are in NO position to lecture anyone on these issues. Not at all. Not now or ever.

PatrickD

Jeanetteathome wrote: »

You did it for a week or so - thats what you said , you said you *didn't like the products* thats what you said. So you didn't give it over 18 months like me , or the three years like Morthathan or the 12 months like Gardening. You never even tried it properly.

But on the basis of that not doing it you feel able to label others failures on some semantic choice of words. Plus you feel they should *move on* and stop Blaming others - two points here. Discussion of it here on a specific thread does not mean people haven't *moved on* and given our experiences we KNOW whose fault it all was. YOU are in NO position to lecture anyone on these issues. Not at all. Not now or ever.

I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you or anyone else is. The difference between you and me, is that I have no problem with anyone else having a different opinion to me.

Pat

Should_be_out_gardening

PatrickD wrote: »

I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you or anyone else is. The difference between you and me, is that I have no problem with anyone else having a different opinion to me.

Pat

You most certainly do have a problem with anyone here spelling out their issues with kleeneze , telling them to move and and that they are failures when you have no real experience of the issues at hand. You have already told me and others not to be here complaining as you say it when we are discussing REAL issues you have no experience of.

Frankly I'd like to know why you are so keen to make out everyone who has a problem with kleeneze *is* the problem here. I get a feeling you'd like anyone with a negative view of MLM to go from here so you can talk it up for your own purposes, I see no other reason for your uninformed stance on the matter.

PatrickD

Should_be_out_gardening wrote: »

You most certainly do have a problem with anyone here spelling out their issues with kleeneze , telling them to move and and that they are failures when you have no real experience of the issues at hand. You have already told me and others not to be here complaining as you say it when we are discussing REAL issues you have no experience of.

Frankly I'd like to know why you are so keen to make out everyone who has a problem with kleeneze *is* the problem here. I get a feeling you'd like anyone with a negative view of MLM to go from here so you can talk it up for your own purposes, I see no other reason for your uninformed stance on the matter.

I enjoy debating and discussing anything MLM so I dont want anyone to leave. Can you people say the same about me and the others on here who don't share the same opinions as you?

Btw, before you assume too much, I have nearly 20 years experience in MLM so I have all the experience I need to have informed opinions.

Pat

Should_be_out_gardening

PatrickD wrote: »

I enjoy debating and discussing anything MLM so I dont want anyone to leave. Can you people say the same about me and the others on here who don't share the same opinions as you?

Btw, before you assume too much, I have nearly 20 years experience in MLM so I have all the experience I need to have informed opinions.

Pat

You aren't debating because you haven't anything to debate - you haven't done kleeneze for more than a week so know nothing of the issues regardless if you think you do , the **20 yrs in MLM** mean nothing to the grim day to day of Kleeneze which appears the sticking point here.

Your debating appears to be telling others they are failures and that we should move on, what I and I'm sure the others would like to know is just what do you know about the grim day to day of kleeneze which is what causes all the problems?

If your input seems to be just support for other people doing the same MLM as you and thats about it.