Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Jeanetteathome

Morethanconcerned wrote: »

You do realise he'll NEVER be able to hold that gold? I regularly knocked on the door of 18% with 750 - 1000 books a week, I did it full time and worked form 7AM in the morning to evening every night of the week, weekends all day , in a constant round to get the books back and the orders out.

After ALL costs were removed - I kept strict records , something which many kleeneze agents say they do but rarely actually achieve or it would mean admitting it was costing them hard money - after all the fuel , the books and ancillary costs, taking into account a two week holiday with my children the average for the whole year was just over £300 pounds - £342 to be precise.

Thanks for coming back here Morethan, it's always good to read your posts. Like you I tried to do big retail but on a much smaller level, once I gave up trying to recruit having grown tired of just basically lying I tried to do more and more catalogues. But round by me there were already several other distributors so any attempt to find new areas meant I was just falling over other catalogues.

Of course the uplines response was just leave a book as if the household wouldn't mind having three books on their step. All it really meant was putting out 200 books miles from home to spend time and fuel going back several times chasing books already either collected or thrown at other distributors for £30 of orders.

Other members of our team did big retail or tried to and it just meant falling over other people and spending even more on books fuel and other things. They could never keep it up and worked day and night on it. Again it was a case of them being touted at meetings as being superb retailers but if you spoke to them they always told a different story.

Jeanetteathome

PatrickD wrote: »

Yes, you're right, a retail only business is dangerous ground and MLM was never designed for this; it was designed to be a group of people all doing a small amount of retailing.

Of course, non-Kleeneze businesses can have exactly the same problems. If you're a one-man/woman business you will probably not be earning anything when you're not actually working (holidays, sickness etc).

Pat

Well of course the reason it doesn't work is because it's practically impossible to sign anyone up to do it. Of course they make it look easy with you doing £500 then signing 5 - 10 people up doing just £500 and everything is hunkey dorey . But to ACTUALLY get anyone to sign up then stick with it for more than a couple of weeks is next to impossible.

It's not about them buying loads of stuff from the catalogue themselves , that wouldn't pay for a box of books , it's about people building customer bases themselves and possibly working for months and months for pennies. It's so hard to make any money at all that most people who do this quit and so building this small team is nearly impossible, so few stick with doing just a few catalogues but end up doing lots to try and make money that way and use it to recruit.

spend2save

I used to be an Area Manager with a 220k household area in the early 90's. It used to be a really great proposition back then and I recently tried to start up again as a co-ordinator. Unfortunately sales figures are worse now than back then despite the intervening 50% or so of inflation.

Working an area of 30k households the decline amounted to some 40% in household spend over what was achieved nearly 20 years prior, and Betterwares only answer is to just get around your area even quicker, which results in even more resistance from former customers who can now find most of the products so much cheaper at their local Tescos.

Although betterware are inept at responding to the changing market and unsympathetic with their impoverished 'self-employed' agents, the charging for books that Kleeneze goes in for just makes a bad situation worse. Avoid IMHO.

One other point with Betterware is that for co-ordinators the contract was changed some time ago to making it clear that the co-ordinator was buying the product from the company and then selling on to the agents. Unfortunately for any co-ordinator with a turnover above the level where VAT registration is mandatory, there is a liability of 20% of profit, which Betterware has never been clear about. I understand that HMRC are now investigating this and will be pursuing back taxes over the past 10 years.

wongawonga

More expenditure for Kleeneze Peeps at a time when finances are stretched. They have just launched the new catalogues. The spring/summer 2012 combined edition no less.

Jeanetteathome

spend2save wrote: »

I used to be an Area Manager with a 220k household area in the early 90's. It used to be a really great proposition back then and I recently tried to start up again as a co-ordinator. Unfortunately sales figures are worse now than back then despite the intervening 50% or so of inflation.

Working an area of 30k households the decline amounted to some 40% in household spend over what was achieved nearly 20 years prior, and Betterwares only answer is to just get around your area even quicker, which results in even more resistance from former customers who can now find most of the products so much cheaper at their local Tescos.

Although betterware are inept at responding to the changing market and unsympathetic with their impoverished 'self-employed' agents, the charging for books that Kleeneze goes in for just makes a bad situation worse. Avoid IMHO.

One other point with Betterware is that for co-ordinators the contract was changed some time ago to making it clear that the co-ordinator was buying the product from the company and then selling on to the agents. Unfortunately for any co-ordinator with a turnover above the level where VAT registration is mandatory, there is a liability of 20% of profit, which Betterware has never been clear about. I understand that HMRC are now investigating this and will be pursuing back taxes over the past 10 years.

When you say get round the areas quicker do you mean less time between drops?

I always felt a little sorry for betterware bods , if there assigned area was poor and many were they couldn't do anything about it. The amount of books left lying outside houses weeks after they should have been collected was shocking really, given how little was ordered in some areas. Us putting the kleeneze books out probably didn't help matters.

The thing about the coordinators buying the stuff is a bit worrying.

Jeanetteathome

wongawonga wrote: »

More expenditure for Kleeneze Peeps at a time when finances are stretched. They have just launched the new catalogues. The spring/summer 2012 combined edition no less.

Well the Xmas book this year came out beginning of august wasn't it? It was bad enough when they came out in September , by now folk were sick of seeing them!

YeLwOrF

My up line never insisted 200 cats twice a week. He just advised me to do whatever I could. He constantly reminded me that Kleeneze would work round me. He also insisted that I would have to keep record of my effort and use the results of the records to plan my next drop. Using records to plan my next drop has reduces catalogue loss to 1%. Also going for NO has resulted in me now getting on average £5 a catalogue. I have never owned more than 200 catalogues at one time. I regularly order the order forms from kleeneze I always run out before buying a new box of cats which this year I have only purchased eight income kits.
Note. Kleeneze has never suggested 200 cats twice a week; this is the majority of up lines to get better bonuses. My time scale only allows me 10hours a week for kleeneze.
Kleeneze suggests that you put out 1000 cats a month, that’s only 36 cats a day.
Your up line is supposed to help you if they don’t contact their up line.

Honest_John_666

spend2save wrote: »

I used to be an Area Manager with a 220k household area in the early 90's. It used to be a really great proposition back then and I recently tried to start up again as a co-ordinator. Unfortunately sales figures are worse now than back then despite the intervening 50% or so of inflation.

Working an area of 30k households the decline amounted to some 40% in household spend over what was achieved nearly 20 years prior, and Betterwares only answer is to just get around your area even quicker, which results in even more resistance from former customers who can now find most of the products so much cheaper at their local Tescos.

Although betterware are inept at responding to the changing market and unsympathetic with their impoverished 'self-employed' agents, the charging for books that Kleeneze goes in for just makes a bad situation worse. Avoid IMHO.

One other point with Betterware is that for co-ordinators the contract was changed some time ago to making it clear that the co-ordinator was buying the product from the company and then selling on to the agents. Unfortunately for any co-ordinator with a turnover above the level where VAT registration is mandatory, there is a liability of 20% of profit, which Betterware has never been clear about. I understand that HMRC are now investigating this and will be pursuing back taxes over the past 10 years.

Can I ask spend2save what area of the UK do you live in???

Did you work the same area or a differnet area when you came back???

When you came back, how long did you come back for???

50% inflation......are you on about the prices of the goods??? Some Betterware product prices haven't risen in donkies years. :eek:

Easy challenge for me this one..... do a like for like comparison with Kleeneze products..........I would hazard a guess & say 90% of B/W products are cheaper than KZE. B/W still have a no quibble 12 month guarantee on all products. Before the poundshop people pipe up..........do the poundshop offer a 12 month guarantee



I have a friend who works for Betterware & they tell me all the numbers stack up. More people in more books out = Sales

From what you've said 'back in the early 90's' which was obviousley a long long time ago. There wouldn't have been very many part time oppportunities available, any online stores, any poundshops etc etc. so there would be a part answer to maybe why you didn't do so well :mad:

Still free of any charges to join though isn't it. So @ the Area Coordinator level you were given Free Franchise


I'm not sure about the VAT business but will find out & come back to you :beer:


Regards
John

niftyone

YeLwOrF wrote: »

My up line never insisted 200 cats twice a week. He just advised me to do whatever I could. He constantly reminded me that Kleeneze would work round me. He also insisted that I would have to keep record of my effort and use the results of the records to plan my next drop. Using records to plan my next drop has reduces catalogue loss to 1%. Also going for NO has resulted in me now getting on average £5 a catalogue. I have never owned more than 200 catalogues at one time. I regularly order the order forms from kleeneze I always run out before buying a new box of cats which this year I have only purchased eight income kits.
Note. Kleeneze has never suggested 200 cats twice a week; this is the majority of up lines to get better bonuses. My time scale only allows me 10hours a week for kleeneze.
Kleeneze suggests that you put out 1000 cats a month, that’s only 36 cats a day.
Your up line is supposed to help you if they don’t contact their up line.

What exactly is " Going For No " ?

Honest_John_666

YeLwOrF wrote: »

My up line never insisted 200 cats twice a week. He just advised me to do whatever I could. He constantly reminded me that Kleeneze would work round me. He also insisted that I would have to keep record of my effort and use the results of the records to plan my next drop. Using records to plan my next drop has reduces catalogue loss to 1%. Also going for NO has resulted in me now getting on average £5 a catalogue. I have never owned more than 200 catalogues at one time. I regularly order the order forms from kleeneze I always run out before buying a new box of cats which this year I have only purchased eight income kits.
Note. Kleeneze has never suggested 200 cats twice a week; this is the majority of up lines to get better bonuses. My time scale only allows me 10hours a week for kleeneze.
Kleeneze suggests that you put out 1000 cats a month, that’s only 36 cats a day.
Your up line is supposed to help you if they don’t contact their up line.

Great first post

How long you been active with Kleeneze???

Regards
John